Split Times in Cars

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Originally Posted by cosmicpanda

Ideally, splits would be banned to cars, and teams would make a gentlemen's agreement not to indicate splits to their drivers on the stages.

Splits allow the top drivers, when they're not first on the road, to control the pace of the rally too well. This discourages them from pushing and is boring because instead of setting up final-day fights (unless you're Loeb and in Finland), it benefits the driver in front and allows them to use their running position to maintain a lead over the rest of the field.

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That is a noble gesture but the gentlemens' agreement would not last, especially when a possible championship win is at hand. If it not written in the rules or regulations, then someone will eventually do it. In fact, everybody does.

Before the current rules were brought in, the rally was virtually over by Saturday afternoon with Sunday almost not worth bothering about. Yet despite the current fun and games seen on a Friday this year, we have seen some very close and unpredictable finishes on the Sunday including the closest ever finish in WRC history.

Various methods have been tried in the past and not one of them is free from criticism. They all end up being flawed in some way because of the need of the teams to make the most of the situation. There is no perfect remedy for this.

I know that gentlemen's agreements are only as good as the the worthies who make them, but there's hope; in the hyper-political world of F1, there's a gentlemen's agreement governing a two-week factory shutdown over the summer break.

just change the starting order and problem is solved with far fewer resources spent.

Can you be specific about how you would change it?

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Originally Posted by cosmicpanda

I know that gentlemen's agreements are only as good as the the worthies who make them, but there's hope; in the hyper-political world of F1, there's a gentlemen's agreement governing a two-week factory shutdown over the summer break.

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The F1 Gentlemens' Agreement about the two-week factory shutdown has more to do with employee contracts and workplace issues according to various European industrial relations laws.

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Originally Posted by cosmicpanda

Can you be specific about how you would change it?

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reverse the starting order for days 1-2-3, use the shakedown so the top crews choose their position after 2-5 runs according to fastest times...so no tactics since running 10th and running 15th isn't much of a problem.

Splits will be used of course just for the drivers to be able to see the pace of their competitors but not for stopping/slowing and playing math games.

To each his own, I guess. Personally, I didn't enjoy the old days where a driver was able to use his superior start position to, through keeping track of split times, drive just fast enough to maintain a comfortable lead.

Mind you, that was when Loeb started to dominate. Maybe that's why it started to seem a bit monotonous!

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Originally Posted by cosmicpanda

To each his own, I guess. Personally, I didn't enjoy the old days where a driver was able to use his superior start position to, through keeping track of split times, drive just fast enough to maintain a comfortable lead.

Mind you, that was when Loeb started to dominate. Maybe that's why it started to seem a bit monotonous!

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the thing is that all the top drivers had that superior position not just some of them, so its just came to driver skill to maintain the postion they had, if they are so good that that they can handle the competition so easily so be it. Why give a disadvantage to the best guy ?? its unfair and not "sport". Keeping things equal is what sports should be about (very narrow weight classes in boxing for example).

As for Loeb, the guy has dominated for 8 years now, no matter starting orders, car regulations, recce regulations, tyre regulations so i doubt it was the strting order rules that started it.

I like the best man to win, no matter if it is monotonous or not.

You misunderstand me. I was not criticising the system for causing Loeb to win, nor was I saying anything of the sort. Loeb's wins were of his own making and he deserves all the credit. The effect of them was monotonous, however.

Also, you seem to imply that the current system does not allow the "best man" to win; that's a very flawed argument. Begin by trying to define "best man."

I hope that rallies can somehow be as exciting as they have been these past few years with the new system, but I am a bit pessimistic.

Loeb is the only driver who has been able to win consistently from the front, when all others have used tactics to their advantage.
sorry you think that its monotonous that the best driver has won more often than anyone else, but that is what happens when you are the best.

cheers

ps i;m not even a big Loeb fan,but damn he is good.