Another IL team bites the dust

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

1. Hence the term "PROFESSIONAL" race driver. Maybe they would be smarter to aspire to race in a sport, where they aren't wanted and most that are there, aren't paid. That would be smart. :D

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I guess you have extra money you want to sponsor someone to drive for Dale Coyne? Oh you don't? Good...because no other American apparently can be bothered to sponsor American drivers either. Ride buyers get paid as a percentage of the money they BRING to the table, and get a cut of the purse. They are still professional. Just they have a passport you don't like.

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

2. Was the economy in the crapper in the mid 90's too? Look back at how the trends were in the late 80's to the late 90's. Many of the better American drivers, weren't getting to Indy Cars then either. The numbers were dwindling almost by the year. When Rahal, Mike Andretti, Sullivan and Little Al left, where were their replacements?

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Early 90's it was. I guess Sam Hornish and Tony Stewart having rides in the IRL or Buddy Rice and Buddy Lazier were Not Americans either? Where are they now? NASCAR or NOT racing because they were not fast enough to hold onto their jobs. If Buddy Lazier could run with these guys, he wouldn't be out of racing now. You don't keep your job because of your passport. You keep looking for the boogeyman and he doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

3. Exactly. Hence, my point of all of these formula car feeder series being irrelevent, unpopular and a waste of time. ;)

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They may not be a waste of time, but if they are unpopular, it is because of often stupid marketing and a lack of interest in road racing in general. Just like you don't see a ton of people getting bent out of shape to watch modifieds or midgets. Yes they have their fans, and at a small track they draw well, but there is a reason midgets don't have national TV coverage.

My point still is if you take away all the ladder OW series in the the US, your American drivers are going to be pushed into NASCAR, where it is clear your favoured American's still rule the roost. So if Foreign drivers start winning there say in 10 years, will this all be some sort of communist plot?

The reason Americans are NOT as numerous in the IRL as they should be in your view still comes back to the harsh reality that the IRL isn't the attractive option for sponsors and yes, the drivers. Many guys are setting their course for NASCAR and most of those who come from Sprints are going that way. Jeff Gordon is a great talent, and he by talent alone should have at least gotten a test or two, but the point is that the effort was not put into going to the OW world once Jeff had a taste of stock cars. He has said this more than once, and it is clearly obvious that if the IRL was such a great institution for American drivers, than why did Sam Hornish and Tony Stewart leave it? Why did Allmendinger leave it? Why did Robby Gordon leave it? There were plenty of Americans in OW, and they didn't leave because they couldn't get rides, they went because they wanted the dough. So spare me this rot once again of how the Americans are being victimized. You beat this point to death, and I keep refuting it......because if we listened to you, the IRL would be dead. You of all people do nothing but bash the IRL an OW racing as it is now, yet you keep posting here....makes me sort of scratch my head.

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

1. because no other American apparently can be bothered to sponsor American drivers either.

2. I guess Sam Hornish and Tony Stewart having rides in the IRL or Buddy Rice and Buddy Lazier were Not Americans either? Where are they now? NASCAR or NOT racing because they were not fast enough to hold onto their jobs.

3. If Buddy Lazier could run with these guys, he wouldn't be out of racing now.

4. So if Foreign drivers start winning there say in 10 years, will this all be some sort of communist plot?

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1. Yes, there are good reason for this. Racing series, with little-to-no fanbase, a generally bad racing product, a bad TV contract and few recognizable/marketable drivers, don't exactly make sponsors swoon.

2. Of those 4 drivers you mentioned, only 1 ever ran in CART/Champ Car. And Buddy's rides were so bad in CART, does that even really count? :p The other 3 wouldn't have likely gotten into Indy Cars, without the formation of the IRL. The early IRL (before 2003) actually made American drivers a priority. Many that CART either ignored or would have ignored, got their start in the IRL. Some others from the CART ladder series (like Fogarty, Gurney and Hand) never did get a shot. Mears barely did, before he left for big league ball. This also happened long before the economy was bad (which is the convenient excuse now, why Indy Cars aspire to be a F1 Junior Series).

If you think Tony Stewart, Sam Hornish Jr and Buddy Rice couldn't run with Mario Moraes, Milka Duno and EJ Viso, you really don't know what you are talking about. ;) Or maybe that's why Paul Tracy, Oriol Servia, Bruno Junquierra, JR Hildebrand, Jon Edwards and Tomas Scheckter also aren't in the field this weekend. Just not fast enough. :D

3. Buddy doesn't have to race anymore and likely doesn't want to. He is over 40 years old. Has a smokin' hot wife. Has more money then he'll ever know what to do with. Has a young son getting his feet wet in racing. Has a Indy 500 winner's ring. Has a Indy Car championship. I am sure he is very content with his racing career. And in a good car at Indy, he'd still run circles around 90% of the current field. Maybe you remember 2005 (the last time he actually had a decent car at Indy)?

4. Foreign drivers will NEVER dominate NASCAR. NASCAR, unlike Indy Car, is smart enough, to give their consumers and fans what they want. And in this country, they want to see Justin Allgaier, James Buscher and Ricky Stenhouse make their way into Cup. Not Bertand Baguette, JK Verney and Rodrigo Barbosa.

If NASCAR's PTB ever let their series become dominated with non-American drivers, they will suffer the same fate their Indy Car counterparts have faced. And they know it.

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

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The reason Americans are NOT as numerous in the IRL as they should be in your view still comes back to the harsh reality that the IRL isn't the attractive option for sponsors and yes, the drivers. Many guys are setting their course for NASCAR and most of those who come from Sprints are going that way. Jeff Gordon is a great talent, and he by talent alone should have at least gotten a test or two, but the point is that the effort was not put into going to the OW world once Jeff had a taste of stock cars. He has said this more than once, and it is clearly obvious that if the IRL was such a great institution for American drivers, than why did Sam Hornish and Tony Stewart leave it? Why did Allmendinger leave it? Why did Robby Gordon leave it? There were plenty of Americans in OW, and they didn't leave because they couldn't get rides, they went because they wanted the dough. So spare me this rot once again of how the Americans are being victimized. You beat this point to death, and I keep refuting it......because if we listened to you, the IRL would be dead. You of all people do nothing but bash the IRL an OW racing as it is now, yet you keep posting here....makes me sort of scratch my head.

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Great post.

On a related item, when Scott Speed lost his F1 ride, (F1 politics are a $%*#!) Red Bull corporate continued to support him personally, and wanted to put him a racing seat somewhere.

They were absolutely opposed to him racing in Indycar: Indycar wasn't good exposure for the money & return on investment on their brand, if he had struggled in the "lesser series" it would have destroyed his marketability as a driver, and if he would have been immediately successful it would have further weakened Indycars reputation world-wide as a top level series. Thus, they sent him to Nascar where the expectations were very low & the potential return huge.

The ONLY way to fix the problem of not enough north american drivers, fewer pay drivers, and more "name" drivers is a total revamp. We need to hope that Bernhardt & company are good!

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Originally Posted by e2mtt

Great post.

On a related item, when Scott Speed lost his F1 ride, (F1 politics are a $%*#!) Red Bull corporate continued to support him personally, and wanted to put him a racing seat somewhere.

They were absolutely opposed to him racing in Indycar: Indycar wasn't good exposure for the money & return on investment on their brand, if he had struggled in the "lesser series" it would have destroyed his marketability as a driver, and if he would have been immediately successful it would have further weakened Indycars reputation world-wide as a top level series. Thus, they sent him to Nascar where the expectations were very low & the potential return huge.

The ONLY way to fix the problem of not enough north american drivers, fewer pay drivers, and more "name" drivers is a total revamp. We need to hope that Bernhardt & company are good!

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It seems on a weekly basis I have to keep making that post, because Scott just refuses to believe in the reality of modern racing, in that American corporations are often not backing Americans to go Indy Car racing. They haven't really been big on doing it for 15 odd years and it isn't the team owners that are the problem.

Oh well, he is entitled to keep making his assertion that it is the team owners, and I will keep making variations of the theme but I do notice no one else is on the bandwagon with him.

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Originally Posted by fugariracing

The Genoa Lights and LMPC programs are two different Genoas. The Genoa in LMPC is the actual Genoa owned by Angelo Ferro and run by Thomas Knapp, formerly of IndyCar, and has been around for decades. Genoa Lights is run by Mark Olson, who raced for Michael Crawford in FIL in 2008, and uses the Genoa name. Two completely different entities and animals.

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Some constructive information from this forum..Thanks for the update. Good to know.

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Originally Posted by Placid

Sponsorship woes have struck Genoa Racing Indy Lights program ..... How can teams can secure sponsors when half or 3/4 of the sponsors are funding teams - including F1 - overseas?

And what will it be for the LMPC program?

Link: http://www.eformulacarnews.com/news_info.php?n=6875

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Tough when we have sponsors being courted by Teams, Drivers, Venues and Series. Too many folks chasing the same buck with variable ROI.

The Cheese Has Moved!! Market Innovation needs Sponsors. Time to think outside the box. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrsYS...eature=related