If Simona can do it, why can't Graham, Buddy, PT, and J.R. ???

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Originally Posted by ChicagocrewIRL

I think hell just froze over. I actually agree with you.

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It wont kill you...and you will disagree with him again....


I think the team owners can dig for sponsors all they want, but the business has been bassackwards for so long that team owners have a tough time getting a hearing. Some drivers are better shopping for sponsors than others, simple as that, and it shows in who gets rides.

THen you look at PT, and wonder what the deal is. We know he will play the dancing pony thing and do the sponsor obligations, no one who drives for Penske doesn't learn that. WE know he had some limited sponsors with him for years, but I do think the current state of the IRL has pretty much dictated that most of the sponsors come throught the drivers, and some drivers just don't do this game well. Not sure why, and wont be so stupid as to say the team owners don't care. I believe they do. I look at AJ Foyt who employs a Brazilian instead of an American because he wants to win, and that is the best driver he will get. It is still based on talent in many instances......even if there is a "Ride Buy".

Somebody mentioned Sneva - I remember back in the early 80's - probably 1982 - right before we won the 500 - I met Tom Sneva at the Deptford, NJ K-Mart - he was doing a personal appearance and had a car there - it was a hybrid show car of a March 81c and a Phoenix - I know because I asked him and he told me that they pieced it together for show... He took me over to the car - asked if I wanted to sit in it and took time to have a picture taken etc... I was a 12 year old kid and he made a great impression. Here was a guy who drove in the Indy 500 and he was at the Deptford K-Mart talking to a 12 year old kid - that is how it is done and that is one of the things that made me a fan.....

The other thing I suspect many of these younger guys don't do is answer mail (perhaps I am wrong)... Also in the early 80's I wrote to almost all of the active drivers requesting autographs. To almost a person they sent back nicely autographed pictures and I have several nice handwritten letters and several nicely typed personal letters ... These people - both active and retired at the time, took time and they created value for the sport and their sponsors they took a kid with a budding interest in the sport and made me a lifelong fan who to this day thinks of the companies who sponsored them when I buy products.... I am not at all confident the guys and gals today would take the same time - and therefore they are not giving themselves the value they need to attract sponsors.....

Mark bring up a good point - sometimes it is easier for a driver to sell themselves than it is for a team or series to sell itself.... and really the folks who have the drive to win will probably do what it takes to win both on and off the track - it is a little different than slinging around a car on the dirt tracks - but it is still paying your dues on the road to Indy.... as long as they get enough seat time to be competent drivers than I do not see a problem..... Ultimately the face for the sponsor is the driver, not the team......

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Originally Posted by Chris R

Ultimately the face for the sponsor is the driver, not the team......

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Excellent point! I think we sometimes forget that. Except for very well known teams (Ferrari, etc.), it's probably the driver that matters the most.

I think I have a general understanding of the way it works, it just seems odd to me that a guy like Jimmy Vasser, who was a champion driver and hopefully has some presence, who owns the team with KK, who is a rich guy with connections in the tech world, can't land their own sponsors. They are the guys who know the most about how the business side works, should be able to discuss the benefits to a sponsor, and should also be able to build some rapport with the potential sponsor.

If they can't do it, it seems a stretch to think that Buddy, J.R. etc. aren't making enough effort - I think the real reason is that it's damn difficult for the driver to sell the deal when the owner can't.

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Originally Posted by vintage

I think I have a general understanding of the way it works, it just seems odd to me that a guy like Jimmy Vasser, who was a champion driver and hopefully has some presence, who owns the team with KK, who is a rich guy with connections in the tech world, can't land their own sponsors. They are the guys who know the most about how the business side works, should be able to discuss the benefits to a sponsor, and should also be able to build some rapport with the potential sponsor.

If they can't do it, it seems a stretch to think that Buddy, J.R. etc. aren't making enough effort - I think the real reason is that it's damn difficult for the driver to sell the deal when the owner can't.

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Excellent points in this post. I agree completely. I said this in another thread, but I remember PT talking about Monster last year. He said that when Monster talked with the teams and crunched the numbers they were given, they came back to PT and said the teams were asking for 3-4 times the value of exposure they would get. The reason why teams and drivers can't find sponsors is the exposure value doesn't come close to the money the teams need to operate. Until TV ratings come back to respectable, then this won't change.

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Originally Posted by DBell

Excellent points in this post. I agree completely. I said this in another thread, but I remember PT talking about Monster last year. He said that when Monster talked with the teams and crunched the numbers they were given, they came back to PT and said the teams were asking for 3-4 times the value of exposure they would get. The reason why teams and drivers can't find sponsors is the exposure value doesn't come close to the money the teams need to operate. Until TV ratings come back to respectable, then this won't change.

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It is a vicious circle.

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Originally Posted by ChicagocrewIRL

OK, here it is the start of a brand new season and we have the same old problem of talented drivers sitting on the sidelines while no talent hacks with personal sponsors have coveted IICS drives.

But then along comes Simona de Silvestro, AKA Swiss Miss, who basically burst upon the open wheel scene with a hugely impressive run in the 2009 Atlantics with 4 dominant wins, 4 pole positions, and 9 podium finishes. Clearly she is no hack. Clearly she has the proven talent to compete and to position herself as one of the up and coming stars of IndyCar, very similar to Graham's pre IICS resume'.

But unlike Graham, Simona has managed to land a ride, all be it not a top tier ride, with Keith Wiggins and HVM Racing. With the backing of Stargate Worlds game software company, she is poised to compete, and compete well, in the 2010 IICS Championship. She proved this in her first outing by leading 5 laps and holding off 2 time IndyCar Champion, Dario Franchitti during those laps. She competed well until rear suspension problems forced her to the back of the pack.

So the question is why can someone like Simona de Silvestro land a funded IICS ride while equally talented drivers like Hildebrand, Edwards, Rice, Rahal, Tracy, etc sit on the sidelines ?

From what I have been able to research, Simona brings the backing of Stargate Worlds, a computer gaming program still in its developmental stages. It's unclear how much money Stargate Worlds brings to the table because, reportedly, their Atlantics involvement provided no up front cash to the 2 car team of Muniz and de Silvestro. However, Stargate Worlds two main developers, Imran Safiulla and Shane Seneviratne are avid open wheel racing enthusiasts who may be bringing personal funds to the HVM/Stargate Worlds effort.

This is what Graham et, al need to find. They need to present their cases to companies and individuals who have the same passion for autosport that the Stargate Worlds principals posses. They are out there.

It's no longer just a matter of being a talented driver, it comes down to being marketable as well. And I think all it will take for these drivers to come up with funding is a lot of legwork and networking by themselves and their management teams.

Let's do a quick breakdown of each driver and how their ride is funded. (speculation)

Andretti Motorsport

Tony Kanaan - funded with team sponsors, limited personal sponsors
Marco Andretti - funded with team sponsors, family ties
Danica Patrick - funded with team sponsors, massive personal sponsors
Ryan Hunter-Reay - funded with limited personal sponsors

Target Chip Ganassi Racing

Dario Franchitti - funded with team sponsors
Scott Dixon - funded with team sponsors

Team Penske

Helio Castroneves - funded with team sponsors
Ryan Briscoe - funded with team sponsors
Will Power - funded with team sponsors

KV Racing

Mario Moraes - funded with family funds (RIDE BUYER)
E.J. Viso - funded by Venezuelan Petroleum and family (RIDE BUYER with some talent)
Takuma Sato - funded by Honda (RIDE BUYER with talent (??))

Conquest Racing

Mario Romancini - unknown funding

Dale Coyne Racing

Alex Lloyd - funded with team sponsors
Milka Duno - funded by Venezuelan oil money (RIDE BUYER with absolutely no talent)

de Ferran/Luczo Dragon Racing

Raphael Matos - funded by team sponsors

Dreyer & Reinbold Racing

Ana Beatriz - funded by team sponsors, personal sponsors
Mike Conway - funded by team sponsors
Justin Wilson - funded by team sponsors, personal sponsors

FAZZT Race Team

Alex Tagliani - funded by team and personal sponsors

Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing

Hideki Mutoh - funded by personal sponsors (RIDE BUYER with limited talent)

Panther Racing

Dan Wheldon - funded by team sponsors

Sarah Fisher Racing

Sarah Fisher - funded by team and personal sponsors
Jay Howard - funded by team and personal sponsors
Graham Rahal - funded by team sponsors (limited)

Stargate Worlds/HVM Racing

Simona de Silvestro - funded by team and personal sponsors

If anyone has actual facts that refute my speculations on how these drivers and teams are funded, please feel free to add them to the discussion.

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One of the best posts, ever. Spot on.

The average race car fan has been viewed as being dumb enough to buy into cheering for anyone driving one of these cars. And looking at some of the gleeful posts about Moraes "signing" with KVRT-Rent-A-Ride Corp, and other ride byer "signings" as being good I can see why the series views the fans that way. In turth, it is just the opposite.

Most race fans are much smarter than that. Again, if Milka Dunno used Citgo money to pay to be the QB of an NFL team, the backlash would be huge, rating would go down. Remember the last NFL stike, and the scab games? Well we just got done with a ten year strike, where we were supposed to believe that Team Cheever, Foyt Enterprises, Jonathon Byrd Racing and Hemelgarn Racing would have won the Indy 500 from 1996-1999 even if the CART teams had been there. Many of us (raises hadn) called BS on that, and the proof is that a former CART team has won every 500 since they started going back (Save for Robby G's last lap gas shortage).

CART was dumb enough to ignore the fans, and the IRL is headed along the same path. I remember several fan votes back in the day, stickers on CART offices, asking, begging for Memo Gidley to be in a car. He was at the top on four-five surveys to get a full-time ride, that included off season testing. The last result was one drive going to Darren Manning with backing from the series, and Guy Smith buying a ride out from under Memo at Rocketsports. Smith was the same one Memo had destroyed on the track in testing at Walker before Memo got his first break.

Now, we have several Indylites and Atlantic champions sitting in the wings, looking for rides in other series. AJ Almendinger is in NASCAR, for crying out loud. Edwards, JRH, Giebler, and more should be driving in this series.

I understand the money issues here first hand. And the ratings remain so low, that even with the DTV/Versus situation being resolved, the spokesman for Versus did not mention the Indy Racing Serice in the announcement. They said it was good for the NHL (National Hockey League, not Newman Haas Lanigan) and the UFC. The IRL is not anywhere near the top of Versus's radar.

But, unless the product is changed (and Bernard gets it!~) there will still be issues. I do note care weather they race a Dallara, Lola, Delta Wing, or a wheel barrow. Unless we get professional PAID drivers, who have EARNED the right to drive at this level, the series will continue its downward, money loosing trend.

Even CART had the nads to pull a drivers license and I can think of at least one driver, maybe two who should never be alllowed to sit, let alone race, in one of these cars.

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

One of the best posts, ever. Spot on.

The average race car fan has been viewed as being dumb enough to buy into cheering for anyone driving one of these cars. And looking at some of the gleeful posts about Moraes "signing" with KVRT-Rent-A-Ride Corp, and other ride byer "signings" as being good I can see why the series views the fans that way. In turth, it is just the opposite.

Most race fans are much smarter than that. Again, if Milka Dunno used Citgo money to pay to be the QB of an NFL team, the backlash would be huge, rating would go down. Remember the last NFL stike, and the scab games? Well we just got done with a ten year strike, where we were supposed to believe that Team Cheever, Foyt Enterprises, Jonathon Byrd Racing and Hemelgarn Racing would have won the Indy 500 from 1996-1999 even if the CART teams had been there. Many of us (raises hadn) called BS on that, and the proof is that a former CART team has won every 500 since they started going back (Save for Robby G's last lap gas shortage).

CART was dumb enough to ignore the fans, and the IRL is headed along the same path. I remember several fan votes back in the day, stickers on CART offices, asking, begging for Memo Gidley to be in a car. He was at the top on four-five surveys to get a full-time ride, that included off season testing. The last result was one drive going to Darren Manning with backing from the series, and Guy Smith buying a ride out from under Memo at Rocketsports. Smith was the same one Memo had destroyed on the track in testing at Walker before Memo got his first break.

Now, we have several Indylites and Atlantic champions sitting in the wings, looking for rides in other series. AJ Almendinger is in NASCAR, for crying out loud. Edwards, JRH, Giebler, and more should be driving in this series.

I understand the money issues here first hand. And the ratings remain so low, that even with the DTV/Versus situation being resolved, the spokesman for Versus did not mention the Indy Racing Serice in the announcement. They said it was good for the NHL (National Hockey League, not Newman Haas Lanigan) and the UFC. The IRL is not anywhere near the top of Versus's radar.

But, unless the product is changed (and Bernard gets it!~) there will still be issues. I do note care weather they race a Dallara, Lola, Delta Wing, or a wheel barrow. Unless we get professional PAID drivers, who have EARNED the right to drive at this level, the series will continue its downward, money loosing trend.

Even CART had the nads to pull a drivers license and I can think of at least one driver, maybe two who should never be alllowed to sit, let alone race, in one of these cars.

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Finally some words of reason.

As of today all the changes that the ICS is talking about won't happen until 2012 at the earliest. Those changes are a new chassis and a New engine package.
This year the only changes are a tittle sponsor (a good thing) and 2 new races One, in Brazil that was exciting but terrible TV. The other will be at Barber were passing will be a non-entity. Their most famous driver made headlines for driving in another series. Other less famous but still somewhat recognizable drivers had to form their own team just to race. Another name driver & an American had to scramble to sign a deal with a backmarker. 2 drivers are sponsored by a government not very popular among a large group of Americans. Last year every race but one was won by to 2 well funded teams and this year started the same way. It might expand to 3 teams with Andretti Racing but, again, it is a well funded team.

Everything else is the same. TV, while on a new network, is still broadcasted the same way with the same old announcers. It is not a marquee series on the network.

They have a viable product but it needs changes and they need them now. 2 years is a long time to go to maintain the status quo.

They made 2010 and did it with more than 20 cars at every race (probably) and they got a new title sponsor. That's a lot better than I expected a few months ago.
Yet, according to the Indiana Business Journal the IRL lost over 20 million dollars last year. All the races except Indy and the street races lost money for them. I wonder how long this situation will last :bandit: