Going Green

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

It's frustrating when you try to be as green as possible, only to see countries like China and the USA undo all your good work.

On the old forum, I made fun of the fact that I can change a 100w filament bulb for an 18w energy saving one, yet the chavs over the road will use five times that saving just with their Christmas lights!

Of course the UK should do the right thing, and be seen to be doing the right thing. But there's a massive sense of injustice that we're doing ourselves no favours economically, while certain other countries can expand their economies without a care in the world.

If you wanted a ship built, or to set up a factory, would you do it in a country that was carbon-neuteral, or one that would do the job cheaply?

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The last bit of your post is an excellent point. Why would you do the right thing when being irresponsible is soooooo much cheaper? I seriously think that with labour prices as they are in the east countries like China and India could still be competitive without polluting so much.

If you think your neighbourly chavs are bad wait till you see what our neighbours have done.......

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Of course the UK should do the right thing, and be seen to be doing the right thing. But there's a massive sense of injustice that we're doing ourselves no favours economically, while certain other countries can expand their economies without a care in the world.

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I find it worrying that so many people have decided to feel such a sense of injustice in the face of all the recent coverage of climate change issues, rather than just getting on with taking small steps towards being more energy-efficient and accepting the fact that certain things are going to cost more. I for one don't feel this 'massive sense of injustice'.

My frustration is with the politicians of almost all parties who have never stopped to think about the adverse effects of globalisation. Earlier today, I was listening to Peter Hain, the Welsh Secretary, talking in support of a campaign to stop Burberry from moving clothes production from Wales to somewhere cheap in the Far East. His arguments as to why they shouldn't move — just like all the arguments put forward by people from all parties as to why Airbus will never move production out of the UK — were entirely spurious, and failed to take into account the realities of mass production and globalisation. The same is true of the growth of economies such as those of India and China with their resulting environmental impacts. This has been allowed to happen in part because globalisation is inevitable, and is seen as such by politicians and electorates, yet there seems to be surprise that it has had such an adverse environmental effect. Again, globalisation is all very well until these adverse effects hit home.

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Originally Posted by Hazell B

Less cars in the cities means cleaner air near your lungs, and that of your children. What's wrong with cutting down on car use if you want to breathe clean air when walking the city streets?

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So I guess you'll either be getting rid of the Landie? Or smiling when Gordon's cronies send you a £1,000 bill for 12 months road fund licence then?

Don't get me wrong here people, I recycle, I use energy efficient light-bulbs and I even turn my TV off at night but I feel that my, abeit miniscule effort, each week is being undone by the likes of China and India in a matter of hours.

I'm a firm believer in global warming and believe we have witnessed serious climate change over the past few years. For me the problem is only going to get worse, no matter what many governments enforce because there are too many like China, India and the USA whose see it as a 'get rich at all costs situation' rather than the potential death of civilisation as we know it.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I find it worrying that so many people have decided to feel such a sense of injustice in the face of all the recent coverage of climate change issues, rather than just getting on with taking small steps towards being more energy-efficient and accepting the fact that certain things are going to cost more. I for one don't feel this 'massive sense of injustice'.

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To be fair, I have got on with things and felt a sense of injustice!

Every light fitting that will accept one has an energy-saving bulb, I recycle more than I thrown out (most weeks), I'm more aware of what I leave switched on... lots of little things which do add up. That doesn't mean I don't get upset when I see other people or other countries not making the effort.

As an aside, there's an article on the BBC website about plasma TVs being wasteful, and there's this delightful comment which I wish I'd made myself:

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Who cares about how much power they consume? I know I don't. It doesn't matter what you do, there's always somebody sticking their oar in, whinging about eco this and eco that. If they're that concerned about it, why don't they develop a TV that doesn't use as much power. I have a 42" Plasma, it's switched off at the mains at night watched for 25 mins while I get ready for work and about 4 hours on an evening after my evening meal. The majority of people are not like these un-employed people who buy TV's like this from credit companies and sit on their rears all day watching Trisha and eating pot noodles, pumping out children all year so they don't have to work. I paid for my TV outright, I can buy what I want to buy when I want to buy it and use it how I see fit (within reason of course!)
Steven, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne

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:D

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

To be fair, I have got on with things and felt a sense of injustice!

Every light fitting that will accept one has an energy-saving bulb, I recycle more than I thrown out (most weeks), I'm more aware of what I leave switched on... lots of little things which do add up.

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Yes, but you are pretty enlightened about these things. Many other people are not.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

As an aside, there's an article on the BBC website about plasma TVs being wasteful

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Yes, there is quite a lot of rubbish talked about some of the small things that people think they should do. A friend who is rather more environmentally-minded than I insists on turning off his Telewest set-top box every night to prevent it being on standby while he's asleep, because leaving things on standby is terrible. He will not accept what I see as the fact that turning it back on must use up more energy than having it on standby, as all the lights on the box have to go through that period of incessant flashing while the damn thing resets itself.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Yes, but you are pretty enlightened about these things. Many other people are not.



Yes, there is quite a lot of rubbish talked about some of the small things that people think they should do. A friend who is rather more environmentally-minded than I insists on turning off his Telewest set-top box every night to prevent it being on standby while he's asleep, because leaving things on standby is terrible. He will not accept what I see as the fact that turning it back on must use up more energy than having it on standby, as all the lights on the box have to go through that period of incessant flashing while the damn thing resets itself.

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You've also got to consider practicality. While a TV doesn't take that long to switch on rather than come out of standby a Sky box or Telewest box takes a while and that's not very convenient is it? :mark:

Tbh I don't see how having a nice TV makes you some sort of eco-devil. While a big LCD or Plasma is surely a luxury I don't see it as being OTT or anything. I also think their comparison of LCD/Plasma vs CRT is somewhat off. With desktiop monitors LCD's crap all over CRT's for energy consumption.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

...If you wanted a ship built, or to set up a factory, would you do it in a country that was carbon-neuteral, or one that would do the job cheaply?

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Ships and factories are being built in the first place to respond to world consumption. The biggest consumers are Western countries whose citizens don't think twice about the environment when they purchase their plasma t.v. Factories are established in China and India because of cheap labour. The same plasma t.v. constructed in the U.S. or the U.K., where collective labour barganing ensures high wages, would cost twice as much. As it happens, China and India have very loose environmental regulations.
So... we want our cake and eat it too. We want our plasma t.v. and we want it cheap. The environment suffers.

I recycle when I can and have those energy-efficient lightbulbs as well. I actually prefer the softer light the give out too. My local supermarket has a "bag for life" scheme where you buy a sturdy shopping bag for 50p rather than use the carriers - I have three "bags for life" now, two of which are two years old! Refusing extra packaging is always a good idea.
My houseplants are watered with collected rainwater as well.

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Originally Posted by LotusElise

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My houseplants are watered with collected rainwater as well.

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Show us your butt ;) :D

Congrats to schmenke for the first smutty post on the new forum :laugh: :up: