Exactly what has Ferrari and Red Bull signed up to?

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20th June 2009, 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Court ruling or no court ruling, they can't be forced to race if they really don't want to.

This is a myth, and one that only those with no concept of corporate contract law would believe.

The FIA have a contract with Ferrari, the FIA also have a contract with FOM the value of which is dependant upon the Ferrari contract, while FOM in turn have a contract with CVC.

If Red Bull, Toro Rosso & Ferrari do not honour their contractual obligations to the FIA, then they will be liable for the losses incurred by not only the FIA but also FOM & CVC.

There is such a thing as corporate liability.

Ferrari, Red Bull & Toro Rosso may not like it, they may not wish to honour the contracts, but financially the only way out is to buy out the contract to the value of it and all related contracts.

Which will make any chance of affording a breakaway impossible.

Ferrari's only chance is that a court finds that the FIA have negated the contract by not keeping to the clauses about the veto...but they've already been to court once and failed to get that, quite the oppposite occured.

I'm a Ferrari fan, I'll watch whatever series they end up in, but practically, legally and realistically, there is only one series they will be in.

Now, what form Formula One takes is anyones guess, but they will be in it.
20th June 2009, 09:27

Oh, and as a side note, why is it that the anti-Mosley forum members do not understand the law and assume that the law is what they want it to be, not what it actually is?

This isn't the first time.

Seriously, if you think you can just break a contract just because you don't want to honour it anymore, try not paying your mortgage for a year and see what happens.

You can tell the judge that you've fallen out with the bank and that's why you don't want to pay for your house anymore.

You could....but I wouldn't recommend it.
20th June 2009, 09:29

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76342

Sir Frank understands the legal situation.
20th June 2009, 10:33
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

I can't see what would stop Ferrari and RBR turning up in Melbourne 2010 with two illegal old cars, failing scrutineering and going home again. Their freight costs are met by FOM, and they'd hardly need many staff, so it wouldn't cost a fortune.

Court ruling or no court ruling, they can't be forced to race if they really don't want to.

Exactly!
And after they do that a couple of times the WMSC should throw them out of F1! :D
20th June 2009, 10:38
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

This is a myth, and one that only those with no concept of corporate contract law would believe.

The FIA have a contract with Ferrari, the FIA also have a contract with FOM the value of which is dependant upon the Ferrari contract, while FOM in turn have a contract with CVC.

If Red Bull, Toro Rosso & Ferrari do not honour their contractual obligations to the FIA, then they will be liable for the losses incurred by not only the FIA but also FOM & CVC.

First of all any contract can be renegotiated or terminated by any of the parties and they will incur the penalty.

2nd the FIA can not sue for any kind of damages because they are a non profit organization.

3rd there is also that little problem about if their agreement is void because the way the FIA refused to acknowledge the right the agreement gave to Ferrari.
20th June 2009, 10:39
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76342

Sir Frank understands the legal situation.

No, no! Franky boy sold himself for peanuts that's what it's all about, money.
20th June 2009, 10:41
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

Oh, and as a side note, why is it that the anti-Mosley forum members do not understand the law and assume that the law is what they want it to be, not what it actually is?

The law is written by parliaments not by Mosley nor the FIA, and a court of law will decide who gets what, not Maxie and not Bernie.

Why do you believe that what Max says is true?
If you take into account the European laws than the agreement between the FIA, FOM and Ferrai/RedBull/STR is illegal.
20th June 2009, 10:41
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by race_director

u mean a 300 kg car ?

Or a car with 8 wheels, or with huge wings, or without a driver etc...
20th June 2009, 10:47
CNR

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

Oh, and as a side note, why is it that the anti-Mosley forum members do not understand the law and assume that the law is what they want it to be, not what it actually is?

This isn't the first time.

Seriously, if you think you can just break a contract just because you don't want to honour it anymore, try not paying your mortgage for a year and see what happens.

You can tell the judge that you've fallen out with the bank and that's why you don't want to pay for your house anymore.

You could....but I wouldn't recommend it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concord...8_negotiations
they can not have it both ways

there has not been a new Concorde Agreement for 11 years it has been updated

Quote:

the five GPMA-backed teams signed a Memorandum of Understanding
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoran..._understanding
with the commercial rights holders (CVC/Ecclestone) which will form the basis of the next Concorde Agreement.[7] On 29 July, 2008, the teams created the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) to negotiate the terms of contract.

now tell me that FOTA have a contract with them
20th June 2009, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

First of all any contract can be renegotiated or terminated by any of the parties and they will incur the penalty.

Yes, which is what I said....the difference is you think that the penalty will be small, I say that the penalty could be massive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

2nd the FIA can not sue for any kind of damages because they are a non profit organization.

Ioan, that is bollocks. Anybody with a contract can sue for breach of contract, non-profit or otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

3rd there is also that little problem about if their agreement is void because the way the FIA refused to acknowledge the right the agreement gave to Ferrari.

Maybe...but the only time it has been to court that wasn't the ruling. Maybe it will next time...maybe not.

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