Indy 500

But why should NASCAR running there dilute the race?
Perhaps for Indiana residents that have now 2 (3 with F1) races they can attend, but I just don´t get it with TV fans, why would having other series run in the same venue dilute the race, I ask this because I have heard this many times from many open wheel fans, not just you guys.
But then again, I also don´t understand the one race bigger than the whole series concept which has been connected with the Indy 500 since USAC, I remember almost everyone preferes winning Indy than the championship in those days, to me that is just not right, to be a series champion you need to drive great for a whole year, to win one race you just nheed to have a great day and that´s it, perhaps that´s why I have troubles grasping Indy now that i think of it, to me it makes sense that every race is as important as the rest, and although tradition is important to me the biggest an dmost important part of a racing series is winning the championship.

But doesn't every series have a race or races that are preferred to win above all others. Is San Jose the equal of Long Beach? Is Bahrain the equal of Monaco? Is Kansas the equal of Daytona? I don't think that in the mind of the participants they are.

Alexamateo, you are right, some races are preferred, but no race is bigger than the championship, no driver would change Monaco (which I personally don´t like very much) for the championship, or Long Beach for the championship, but Indy 500 for some drivers is and was bigger than the championship, I´m not saying that is wrong just that because I don´t think that is right I also don´t see why having NASCAR using the venue dilutes the race, to me they could use a track for 40 different races and that wouldn´t change anything for me regarding the race of my favorite series, but I have heard from many fans that NASCAR has diluted Indy, I don´t see a track beeing so special, you do, for you Indy is not only about the race it´s a lot more, to some of you using it for other races is almost a blasphemy.
Why did Indy became important in the first place?

I agree that The Indy 500 is not diminished by NASCAR and F1 being there. It might affect attendance because there are now 3 major events in the span of 90-120 days, but I think Indy is enhanced by this, a F1 race, a NASCAR race that quickly became one of the most coveted trophies and of course the INDY 500. If I was in charge, I would only run major series there and not things like the IPS(feeder series), but no one asked me. :)

As far as why it became so important, you could write a book on that, and many have. I know that early on, they ran 500 miles when no one else did, and they paid more money than anyone so it attracted a lot of attention. It attracted enough attention to merit inclusion on the F1 schedule for 10 years even though hardly anyone made the trip at the time. All these things build over time and tradition to make it what it is.

Also, a side note on the championship AAA and USAC paid max points on the basis of miles. A 100 mile race paid 200 pts to the winner, while the 500 paid 1000 points. Many times the Indy 500 winner did win the championship or at the very least had a huge leg up on the competition. This continued up until 1980. (even CART used this system its first two years) I am sure this also contributed to the overall psyche of Indy.

Indy was special because everything else was so small and insignificant in comparison. It was the only 500 mile race in the U.S. The rest were less than 250 miles--100 to 150 was pretty standard. People entered Indy who didn't normally race in the championship series otherwise. They built special cars, many that were unique and innovative--cars that couldn't be found in other races. Indy paid so much more than the others that it was only worth the effort to do so for that one race. A driver could win everything else for the season and still come out with less money than the 500 winner. Some of the cars were so new and different each year that it took a whole month to sort them out and get them ready to qualify. The stakes were so high that those who were using more conventional equipment wanted to try to squeeze the last bit of performance out of them, and spent the month trying things that they wouldn't normally try for any other race. Imagine if the NASCAR season consisted of the Daytona 500 and 20 other races of 150-200 laps on short tracks that paid $5000 to win. That is why Indy was so much bigger than everything else.

Before 1950, Indy was the only track in the country larger that a mile. The 500 was far and away bigger than anything else in the country. Then came Darlington and the Southern 500 for stock cars. That is when NASCAR began diluting the Indy 500. In 1959 came the Daytona 500. In the early 60's a half-dozen superspeedways were built for NASCAR and all of them ran 400, 500 or 600 mile races. Bill France made 500 milers a staple for NASCAR, and was turning many short track events into 500 lappers. Indy cars had one 500 mile race a year. The stock car guys had a dozen of them. That had some diluting effect on the Indy 500. Then adding a NASCAR race to the Brickyard followed. Indy had always been used for that one special race, that took a whole month to prepare for and run, and these other guys come in and desecrate the sacred bricks. How dare they?

USAC finally began adding bigger races in the late 60's and early 70's or thereabouts. Indy cars started running at Ontario, CA and Pocono, PA in 500 mile races. Michigan was added as a 500. Later it became a 400. I don't think these events would have happened if NASCAR hadn't made such a big deal out of having 500 mile races.

If one wasn't around when Indy was the only 500 mile race, it would seem today like Indy is overemphasized, because there are so many other big events going on, 400, 500 and 600 mile races all over the place. One race is easy to lose track of in the heap of big events that happens every year, but remember that Indy was huge long before any of the others existed, and today it is still riding on that tradition, even though many of the things that made it special have been diminished or done away with--the innovation and creativity, the one-off efforts by teams from other forms of racing, the fact that it is the only race of its kind.

I still think if IMS were to shut down today, American OW formula car racing would soon abandon all oval events and talk of the need for diversity of venues would cease.

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Originally Posted by jarrambide

But why should NASCAR running there dilute the race?

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To answer your question literally, it shouldn't. I don't think F1 does and I don't think NASCAR did at first. But when The SPEED Report says Jimmie Johnson "won Indy" this year (not "won at Indy" or won "The Brickyard"), something is wrong.

It comes down to incompetent track management. Only some of the better NASCAR drivers are good enough to compete in the Indy 500. Before the schedule change, a couple of them entered each year. That clearly positioned Indy as the superior event to the Brickyard 400. No one dared calling an Brickyard win an Indy win.

Move the schedule back and you'll get 2-3 NASCAR drivers each year. If you really want to go balls out, move the race (back) to Monday and you'll get 6-8 of 'em. The ratings would skyrocket!

I remember pre-split, when I'd talk about going to an IndyCar race to people. Being the same cars that run Indy meant a lot to non-race fans. So, I think that one easy change, properly managed, can clearly raise the stock of OW racing in this country. (Tony Stewart, Jeff Gorgon, Robby Gordon, Kasey Kahne, Jimmie Johnson and Juan Montoya would all do everything they could to make it. They've all said as much, and they're all good enough to vie for a win. There's no question they could all secure proper sponsorship, either.)

I don't want to sidetrack some of the excellent posts in this thread. However, many of the stories from the elder members of this board make me jealous that I was not able to see the Indy 500 in its hey day, as you all describe it.

ZzZzZz, I agree with you on drivers doing the double, They could also change to Saturday. Originally, of course they ran on Memorial Day, but not on Sunday. When the US moved to the Monday holiday every year, They ran on Saturday for 3 or 4 years. There's nothing in tradition that says they can't do that again. They could have Sunday as a rain day and chances are, they could get drivers to do the double again.

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Originally Posted by DocF225

What makes Indy special is that it's the Granddaddy of all American Racing. The names on the Borg Warner Trophy are a who's who of open wheel racing. Many of the guys on that trophy went on to or came from great sucess in all forms of racing: F1, Stock cars, Endurance etc. Some have moved on to be competitive team owners.

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I agree with you DocF225 on Indy 500 being special and for drivers to say it's not they are kidding themselves. The history of that one race puts it ahead of all others. When a driver wins the Indy 500 he becomes a racing god. Their names are engraved forever in the history of the world. For those that don't believe see if you can remember with out looking it up who won the 1986 Indy 500 and the drive that won 1986 Daytona 500. More people will know the Indy winner from 1986. The same goes for the Brickyard 400 winners the meaning is not the same in though it run on the same track.

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Originally Posted by jarrambide

Will have to judge again after attending the race then.

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You will never forget that sight and sound. I was never able to go to IMS but did go the next best thing. IMS twin sister Ontairo Motor Speedway. What a track and the skill and courage it took to drive there. The only Super Speedways that required a lot of skill were Indy,Ontario and Pocono to drive them. At the 1.5 to 2 mile D shape ovals the track is helping you drive because of the banking. But Indy, Ontario and Pocono the banking was not as steep and you had to work at driving those ovals. Ontario has been gone for almost 30 years but I can still see them racing against the track and cars.