Indycool, Where art thou?

This topic is definitely beating a dead horse. As a side note, Motegi last year and the year before got worse ratings than Kansas this year, and those were on ESPN2 (granted, late at night and/or tape delays). If you want to keep beating this horse's carcass go for it, but it seems like a waste of time if you ask me. Won't mean anything until IRL has established themselves on the VS network. As others have said, lets see where things are at going into Indy next season. If they're same or worse as now then there's reason to worry. AOWR and the IRL might be on its last legs, but this deal with VS could also have a big upside for the series... with time. We will see.

Warning - Dead horse beating ahead.

TV Ratings and attendance figures have always been the focal points of numerous "discussions" on this forum and others. But are they the disease or the symptom? And what do they mean? Attendance and TV ratings are down significantly for NASCAR this year. Does than mean they are headed for oblivion? Hardly. The Kansas race was up against one of the biggest NASCAR races of the year - Talladega. Just what did anyone expect? Its like scheduling against the Super Bowl.

IHMO, CC and CART were both interesting series for the fans. But the business model was a disaster, with rotating drivers, no consistency in the schedule, poor TV coverage with different networks, and no real direction for growth. The symptoms of the disease were falling interest as reflected in the ratings. But the disease killed the patient, not the opposite.

The IRL still has the Big One - Indy - but had a choice to make. Keep accepting the poor coverage on the major networks or take a gamble to move to a smaller network with room to grow where the IRL was a featured product. Sure ratings would start out dismal, but the patient should be improving over time. Stating the old course may have produced slight different numbers, but that direction didn't have an up side.

The treatment may not improve the health of the patient, but it will take a lot more time than a couple races to see the direction. Improvement isn't going to happen overnight, or maybe even this year, but if the gamble is the right one, the upside is a lot more than staying on networks that focus on NASCAR and treat the IRL as a poor stepchild.

Now, can we talk about racing?

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Originally Posted by beachbum

Now, can we talk about racing?

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I hope your not suggesting i dont?

http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...d.php?t=132928

heres an entire thread devoted to discussing the next race..... not only with questions regarding the teams and drivers but directly soliciting more...

interesting that you haven't responded.... have you even looked?


and lets get this perfectly straight.... if your not interested in discussing the Biz side of the sport simply don't click on those threads that do.....is that really that hard?

I have directly solicited the response and opinions of a poster who for the better part of decade focus was on the biz aspect surrounding CART/CC and there demise.......schedule, Attendance and TV ratings factored heavily into discussion...

Go Sarah!

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

two part question..

A. do you think they expected the lowest ratings in the history of AOWR out of the gate for the first three races?

B. both CART and Champcar went out of biz with ratings even a bit better than the .3,.5 and .15 to open the season...... how long can the IRL stay in biz with ratings that low?.... or will Tony's comments of the IRL not having ever turned a profit just continue, with the IRL limping along financially funded from the IMS coffers?

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Answer to A, yes I think they did expect the ratings to be super low. Did they sit in a board meeting and say we expect to see the lowest numbers ever? No, I don't think that comment was made, but I don't doubt for a second that every executive involved said that things will get worse before they get better. Sure they are probably disappointed in the early ratings, but I don't think anybody is put off or discouraged by them. I think they are looking at the results thus far all as part of a plan. Come talk to me in three years if they are still pulling the same numbers.

They are only 3 races in of about 180 races worth of coverage.

Answer to B, I think the IRL can stay in biz indefinitely regardless of the seasons TV numbers provided the 500, the Brickyard 400, and the Moto GP events are profitable enough to sustain the league. It's like was mentioned in the business journal article you posted. The season is essentially a lost leader to bring customers into the store that is the 500.

Now I have a question for you Frysauce! Question numero uno, why are TV numbers continually used as the pulse to measure the viability of the series? I say "viability" not to be confused with "popularity". Huge difference that I feel many on the boards confuse. Because if TV numbers were the only thing that ever mattered the NHL sure as hell would have died off a long long time ago. I get that TV numbers are a significant factor, I get that its a significant measure of things, but just because ratings are low, or the lowest ever does not mean insolvency. Chriist if that were the case I wouldn't be watching NHL playoffs right now.

Question numero two! I don't know how to say two in spanish. You are continually pessimistic about the Versus deal. What were you expecting to see happen this year as a result of the alliance with Versus?

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

Answer to A, yes I think they did expect the ratings to be super low. Did they sit in a board meeting and say we expect to see the lowest numbers ever? No, I don't think that comment was made, but I don't doubt for a second that every executive involved said that things will get worse before they get better. Sure they are probably disappointed in the early ratings, but I don't think anybody is put off or discouraged by them. I think they are looking at the results thus far all as part of a plan. Come talk to me in three years if they are still pulling the same numbers.

They are only 3 races in of about 180 races worth of coverage.

Answer to B, I think the IRL can stay in biz indefinitely regardless of the seasons TV numbers provided the 500, the Brickyard 400, and the Moto GP events are profitable enough to sustain the league. It's like was mentioned in the business journal article you posted. The season is essentially a lost leader to bring customers into the store that is the 500.

Now I have a question for you Frysauce! Question numero uno, why are TV numbers continually used as the pulse to measure the viability of the series? I say "viability" not to be confused with "popularity". Huge difference that I feel many on the boards confuse. Because if TV numbers were the only thing that ever mattered the NHL sure as hell would have died off a long long time ago. I get that TV numbers are a significant factor, I get that its a significant measure of things, but just because ratings are low, or the lowest ever does not mean insolvency. Chriist if that were the case I wouldn't be watching NHL playoffs right now.

Question numero two! I don't know how to say two in spanish. You are continually pessimistic about the Versus deal. What were you expecting to see happen this year as a result of the alliance with Versus?

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were seeing exactly what i expected.... the lowest ratings ever

go back to your hideout and read my first posts on the subject

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

were seeing exactly what i expected.... the lowest ratings ever

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And do you not think they will improve?

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

go back to your hideout and read my first posts on the subject

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What? You're only calling out Indycool?

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

And do you not think they will improve?

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I think they may improve and if they grow 2- 3 times what the average is so far, we'll be back to same level of sucky ratings we had on ESPN. Some have said they see this happening in 2 or 3 seasons. Great, 2 or 3 years to get back to where we were before. Then what? I don't see Versus delivering ratings in the 2.0 to 3.0 range. In a nut shell, I see what is now a niche sport going to a niche channel for 10 years, guaranteeing it stays a niche sport.

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Originally Posted by DBell

I think they may improve and if they grow 2- 3 times what the average is so far, we'll be back to same level of sucky ratings we had on ESPN. Some have said they see this happening in 2 or 3 seasons. Great, 2 or 3 years to get back to where we were before. Then what? I don't see Versus delivering ratings in the 2.0 to 3.0 range. In a nut shell, I see what is now a niche sport going to a niche channel for 10 years, guaranteeing it stays a niche sport.

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Ahhh, somebody who is finally starting to make partial sense of this little endeavor....

If ratings for the regular season grow to anything halfway acceptable, say 1.5 or even a 2.0 and imagine a 3.0 best case, what do you think that will mean for the Indy 500 ratings? It means the 500 will bring in huge numbers and a 10.0 would not be unimaginable if regular season is averaging 3.0's.

I hardly think you can classify that as a niche sport. Give me a break.

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Originally Posted by DBell

I think they may improve

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So if you think they "may improve" then you are more confident that they won't.

So why isn't the move to Versus a good thing then? And please don't use the same old weak argument that ESPN has a larger audience.

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

So if you think they "may improve" then you are more confident that they won't.

So why isn't the move to Versus a good thing then? And please don't use the same old weak argument that ESPN has a larger audience.

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it's not only that Vs is in less homes.... its the fact that relatively no one is watching it period...