No-one to race V8 Supercars in 2012

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Originally Posted by Malllen

The thing is, Toyota wanted to build a V8 Supercar several years ago, but were knocked back because they didn't build a 5.0L pushrod V8 model.

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Sorry but thats just completely WRONG! V8 Supercars have been trying to get Toyota involved for years, there had been opposition from some parties, but fact is both Toyota and Mitsubishi had investigated joining V8 Supercar a number of times but on all occasions did not join for their OWN reasons. In Mitsubishi's case it was because they didn't have any money and in Toyota's case it was because they decided that rallying was a better fit with their marketing compaigns so they joined the ARC instead

People say that other makes couldn't join because they didnt build a 5.0L pushrod rear drive V8 but fact is that was NEVER in the rules, it was just a myth designed to better support the "V8's killed nissan motorsport" stuff, even though Nissan where asked to join the V8's when they where first established but Nissan was not interested, the rules only ever stipulated that the maker had to build an Australian made sedan, which at the time Nissan did and even that rule was recently removed

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Originally Posted by RJL25

other manufacturers where never "banished" from competeing, the rules where open to any locally produced large sedan, toyota and mitsubishi who are the only other manufacturers who build cars in Australia had always just decided not to compete.

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Shenanigans. Shenanigans. Shenanigans.

See Regulation C 1.8
http://www.v8supercars.com.au/conten...20Approved.pdf

The rules as instituted in 1992 then as now, specifically mention a list of eligible models that are approved to be run. The 5L V8 pushrod rule described the then cars which were allowed to be run; and given that when CAMS submitted the regulations to the FIA which were framed by a ten member committee of teams and manufacturers (basically four teams and Ford and Holden) the rules which followed, they were never going to include another manufacturer and to this day still do not.

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Originally Posted by RJL25

Two years ago the rules where loosened up even further allowing non-Australian made cars to compete as well.

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No they do not. There are no other models on the prescribed list of cars; therefore no non-Australian made cars are allowed to compete either.

It makes sense that Australia would switch to the COT since the fanbase/concepts are similar--heavy organizer/results intervention. And Ford/GM are already racing in the series. Both are on very equal grounds.

S2000 is less likely as it only has GM's involvement and Ford as a past supporter. Ford would likely be starting as a backmarker and underdog. Though the biased fan in me would rather see Australia adopt S2000 rules.

On a local motorsport program here in Australia, called in pit lane, Mark Reuss apparently made reference to wanting to race the Cruze in Australia in the future....

.. Super Touring never caught on down here, i don't see S2000 doing any better.

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Originally Posted by RJL25

other manufacturers where never "banished" from competeing, the rules where open to any locally produced large sedan, toyota and mitsubishi who are the only other manufacturers who build cars in Australia had always just decided not to compete. Two years ago the rules where loosened up even further allowing non-Australian made cars to compete as well.

Probably should ensure you know what your talking about before posting... Also racer69, V8 supercars is one of the only forms of motorsport GLOBALLY who is continueing to grow through these tough economic times with more manufacturers and more sponsors coming in this season, and not one team has closed its doors or downsized. Really, V8 Supercars would have to rank as one of the strongest forms of motorsport from a comercial perspective anywhere in the world, so i reject your notion of it needing an overhaul

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Considering i've been following the series for 20-odd years, i believe i do know what i'm talking about.

Why were manufacturers who didn't sell V8 cars going to build & race V8s? How was telling Nissan you can race but it must be a V8 etc etc.. going to entice them to compete? They had developed a very good touring car within the rules and were being told to scrap it and go build a car which had nothing to do with their range.... Nissan had also stopped manufacturing in Australia (or very close to) at the end of 1992....

BMW were allowed to compete in 1993, and infact made a bigger committment than Ford or Holden (they ran 4 works cars). They had supported Australian touring car racing effectively non-stop (bar 1989 & 1990) since 1981.... they were paritied out of competitiveness to fill the grids in 1993, then couldn't compete due to the 'made in Australia' rule

Toyota wanted to promote their small cars & Mitsubishi hadn't been properly involved in the ATCC since 1985, and both by then were concentrating on rallying.... if they weren't banished, then the rules were written knowing they were never going to compete.....

I'm sorry but it was a farce that they were written out of the rules. The regulations certainly needed a change as Group A had run its course.... but look at what it has turned into..... makes alot of money for the teams, but its lacking in the sporting department (in my opinion)

Oh for goodness sakes you people are just going to stick to what you think no matter what, forget the fact that Tony Cochrane who runs V8 Supercars has been running around for years saying "we want Toyota" and forget the fact that last year the V8 board unanimously voted to change the eligability criteria to allow foreign makes and forget the fact that Ford do not sell a pushrod V8 in falcons anymore, so if the eligibility criteria requires a 5.0L pushrod V8 to be in the production car, then both Holden and Ford themselfs would have become ineligable quite a long time agon, Holden in 1999 when they introduced a 5.7ltr motor and Ford in 2002 when they introduced a DOHC motor.

But no you blokes just ignore the facts and stick vigilently to what you think.

By the way Rollo those technical rules are what the RACE CAR must run, it doesn't mean that the production car of which its based necessarily has to run those things, its the same as how the Ford Focus WRC has a 2ltr turbo and AWD but no production Focus has the same

kmchow - Australian motorsport has always been based around touring cars, Nascar was tried in Australia and it flopped badly, V8 Supercar will never go down the COT route because the cars look crap and the manufacturers have publically stated that they would absolutely definetly not be interested

Also Rollo - the technical regulations for V8 Supercars have changed ALOT since 1992, also the Falcon and Commodore are the only models on the eligability list because they are the only models that where presented for inclusion, if other makes presented themselfs to be included then V8 Supercar board would evaluate and decide whether or not to include them as well, and i can assure you that at the moment they DESPERATELY want more manufacturers in the series so they would definetly be welcomed provided they make a 5 year commitment to the series, the V8 Supercar board do not want anyone who will come in and bugger off after only a year or two which i think is fair enough so they demand a significant commitment which i think is good.

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Originally Posted by RJL25

Also Rollo - the technical regulations for V8 Supercars have changed ALOT since 1992, also the Falcon and Commodore are the only models on the eligability list because they are the only models that where presented for inclusion,

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Um. The process for inclusion of new models has NOT changed alot since 1992, in fact it's virtually identical:
http://www.geocities.com/rollo75/1993regs212.JPG
It is the board which approves new models that may be included for eligibility, and that board is made up of now as then of a panel of team owners (4 from TEGA), the management company Sports & Mgt Ltd (2) and two independent directors).

The regulations were written up to keep the power where it was and for this reason I seriously doubt this statement:

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Originally Posted by RJL25

if other makes presented themselfs to be included then V8 Supercar board would evaluate and decide whether or not to include them as well, and i can assure you that at the moment they DESPERATELY want more manufacturers in the series so they would definetly be welcomed provided they make a 5 year commitment to the series

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I have never seen a policy document to this effect. In fact, back in April of 2003, Mitsubishi were turned down after building a Future Tourer. SBR were even threatened with a fine if they tested it.

My question is still, if faced with not having the larger sedans to build a racecar from, what would they use? If Detroit speaks, then Australia acts without question.

Ok this is getting rediculous, YES the board is made up of team representatives, however its the TEAMS who want more manufacturers! With less and less teams being given direct manufacturer support, they want more manufacturers to come in so there is more manufacturer money going around. Holden and Ford have no presence on the board because they are expressly forbidden from team ownership so even if they are against it, they technically don't get a say.

As for Mitsubishi and the future tourer, Mitsubishi DID NOT make the future tourer, that was made by a privateer to run in the future tourers championship, at no point did it EVER have the support of Mitsubishi Australia and although Mitsubishi are rumoured to have invistaged V8 Supercar racing, they are no point have ever approached V8 Supercar about entering.

The SBR story you refer to is completely ficticous by the way.

Also that page you posted has no relevance, its from 1992 and has no relevance at all to modern V8 supercars, have you noticed we don't still run around in VP commodores anymore? ofcourse there is an eligability list, their always is in every catagory in the world, and it goes without saying that only cars that have been presented by manufactuers to compete are included in this list. The only reason there is no Toyota Aurion for example on the list is because Toyota has not presented one to V8 supercar for evaluation and subsequent approval.

There has been stories running on and off for ages about how V8 supercars WANTS more manufactuers involved, the fact your arguing against this is bewildering because its common knowledge that for the last 2 years V8 Supercars Australia and Tony Cochrane has been actively chasing new manufactuers.

Infact 888 lost their Ford funding from this year onward for a variety of reason, principally of which is because they where in negotiations with Toyota about bringing them into the V8's, and when Ford found out about this they said "well see ya later then"

Rollo - being in England i understand it may be difficult to keep up with the latest v8 supercar news, but there is an internet magazine with a reletively low subscription fee called Motorsport E News, http://www.mnews.com.au, they put up a weekly internet magazine with all the latest Australian motorsport news. Go back over the last 6-12 months of issues and you will see just how rediculous your arguments are and how obvious what I am saying is true, because there has been dozens of news stories and even interviews with Tony Cochrane himself where he expressly states his desires for more manufacturers to join.

Mate, your just wrong, sorry!