As a pro union guy,I am not going to say much more on this.its not the unions fault here kids,part of it maybe,the whole blame like some here have suggested,PLEASE PROVE IT.
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As a pro union guy,I am not going to say much more on this.its not the unions fault here kids,part of it maybe,the whole blame like some here have suggested,PLEASE PROVE IT.
This is as true as it gets. As was detailed in that BusinessWeek article linked above, top executives still find a way to make a killing personally even though their company is sagging in the marketplace, and still ask the rank & file to make concessions on things like health care, something unthinkable to an executive who gets paid more than enough to afford health insurance on his own. Add to all that, the fact that the car companies are only now waking up to the need to conserve energy in cars when Japan and Europe were already planning for this decades ago. Make no mistake this country NEEDS a healthy domestic auto industry. But what is happening in Detroit right now is the consequence of constantly looking for short term profits instead of long term health and product stability. When the roof caves in as it always does, Detroit looks for scapegoats instead of dealing with the real issues of their products and long term product planning. The workers aren't to blame, the suits are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesi
For the past couple of years GM, Ford & Chrysler have been producing cars with equal quality (or greater) quality than their foreign counterparts. Look at the J&D Power Quality ratings for 2008 (http://blogs.motortrend.com/6255015/...lts/index.html), the American brands have been placing higher than foreign cars in certain categories. I'm not saying all domestic cars are better quality than foreign cars, but the Yanks have come a long way since the dreadful 1980's & 90's.
The problem lies with consumer perception of American Automobiles. Most consumers feel that domestic cars are a step below foreign cars due to crap GM, Ford & Chrysler produced during the 80's & 90's. This is a psychological hurdle that domestic automakers will have to overcome in the foreseeable future.
Allot of pro union guys in here I see. Chevrolet doesn’t have any problem with quality. I have driven GM products well over 200k miles and did nothing out of regular maintenance. I have a friend who has a Saturn with 270k miles on it right now and it’s still going strong, minus a new water pump. Wile it wasn’t a GM product I know a girl who had a Jeep with 370k miles on it and all she ever had to deal with was one transmission went bad and I think it went bad around 240k miles. The only problem GM has with reliability is Americans mindset that Japanese cars are better, and gas prices are killing their SUV and truck market. One market they have managed to maintain over the years because until lately Japanese manufactures haven’t expanded into it. As for the unions; I don’t need to “read and learn” any self promoting garbage those crooks putout. They are out for no one but themselves. I work for a Rail Road, I know all about those thieves. They take money out of my paycheck every month and I have never seen any action from them. The workers at the Nissan plant in Canton Ms, have all the benefits of GM workers. A union decided they where going move in and take over the plant and the employees (not Nissan) literally had to fight them off. They wasn’t going to do anything but take their monthly dues form peoples pay checks. Ford had a plant here building engines, when they had a reduction in sales in the 70’s Ford wanted to cut wages to keep the plant going. Instead the union told the employees not to accept any of their offers because Ford couldn’t touch their benefits or their paychecks. So that’s what happened and a year later Ford was gone and the union went with them and left 1500 people out of work.
True, American’s big companies do have a fat management problem but that’s only part of the problem.
Let me ask you all this then as well,was it the unions the ones who opened up the market to have all these car companies shop here?
The Nissan shop as well as many other non-union shops have the same benefits as unions so unions can't take a stronghold. My uncle was a union organizer in the early days of collective bargaining. Sweat shops would be a common thing if it weren't for unions. It's not rocket science.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saabaru
There's plenty of blame to go around, I'm just saying don't lay it all at the foot of the unions or workers who are members for not taking concessions when clearly the executives in managament aren't doing so, continuing to line their pockets in good times and bad. You think the Union is just looking out for itself? What do you think the top managers, CEOs, Preisedents, VPs, and Chairmen are doing?
I would agree that domestic autos are better, and I consider Ford the best of all of The Big Three. If you and some people you know are getting that long a life out out of your domestic cars, more power to you. But that is the exception and not the rule, though the fact that is even happening now much more than it was just a few years ago is definitely an very encouraging sign. I hope it continues to happen. I don't want GM or Chrysler to drop any more divisions, and I want Ford to stay just as it is.
As I said, we NEED a healthy and robust domestic auto industry. But if a perception of poor American auto quality from the 70's, 80's, and 90's persists, who's fault is that? Not the foriegn makes. Quality isn't just being able to keep a car together without parts flying off or a tranny going bust within 3 months of purchase (as happened to my old boss' Cadillac back in the 80's). Quality in an automobile today for an ever more sophisticated customer means the experience of driving, how well all the luxury controls work, and the fun aspect of driving, something that BMW, Audi, Lexus, and Mercedes Benz needs no lectures from us about. I think the domestics are finally starting to "get it" but they were late in coming to that table. Like an old Nissan commercial said, and this speaks for most of the foriegn makes, "We weren't born yesterday." The foriegn makes, right now, do a better job of being ready for quick shifts on the tastes of the auto customer; Detroit put a lot into profitable SUVs and small trucks, not as much into continual fuel efficient auto design and now that's biting them in the A$$.
If the suits in Detroit want concessions to make their price points more competitive with Nissan and Toyota, and now Kia and Hyundai, then managment needs to be ready to do the same. Sacrifice needs to be a total team effort. If Detroit can do that, and keep doing it, recovery and even true viability can return to American makes. The country is counting on it.
Agreed that its not ONLY the unions fault, when execs make gobs of money and the poor shlep gets walked out the door it sucks.
I think there are many factors that have led to the decline of GM/Ford.
I heard a quote on the radio that there is a 46% chance GM will be done in 5 years unless drastic changes are made. I'll se if I can dig up the article.
GM and Ford's biggest down fall is their lack of flexibility to stop over producing the SUV’S and pick-ups, and switch to the smaller high gas mileage vehicles. Unlike Ford & GM, Toyota only starting losing money recently when the economy started tanking. The economy is what is killing Ford & GM now. Toyota is going to be fine.
Its wierd how Ford have a bad rep in the states for being unreliable. I read a little while ago that in the states Ford came 4th or 5th in a pole asking about reliablity. Where as here in the UK Ford came top. Wierd?. Maybe Ford US need to look at Ford Europes line of cars. although the line of cars arent that much different these days are they?.