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LoL I am aware of that and others, doesn't mean it was right then. if you payed attention there were people saying it's not good for the sport then as well. And I said besides the score lol I don't give 2c on dirtfish driver ratings.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
Great win by Kale,btw i notice that last year Ogier in the same stage did 8.14 a way faster than this year.
The conditions were worse this year on PS stageQuote:
Originally Posted by spyros
On one of the saturdays dry stage, the current machines showed the same times or even faster than last year. For example Loubet was faster than last year
Rumors about not even the only offense in Croatia 22 so it was only political will or pressure not to punish the team harder.Quote:
Originally Posted by rp
These drivers are supposedly ambassadors for the FIA's Road Safety initiative:
https://www.fia.com/fia-action-road-safety
Driving like a tool on the public highway when virtually their every move is being filmed by a dashcam or phone is just plain counter productive for all parties. Fines for multi $ salaried drivers is a minor inconvenience, hit them with points deductions otherwise there may well be a well publicised high profile RTA that is harder to sweep under the carpet than allowing Russian drivers to compete under a neutral flag.
What Neuville did at the weekend is still 'bad', no doubt about it, but compared to what went on before every car had a tracker on it, and every holier-than-thou motorist had a camera phone or dashcam?
Driving standards on road sections in the pre-tracking days (and still in national rallies without tracking) were appalling. People look back fondly on the likes of McRae, Loeb and Gronholm trying to drag damaged cars back to service, far faster than would be 'safe' and in completely unroadworthy condition, and those guys are heroes. Neuville breaks the speed limit on a practically empty dual carriageway and, to some, he's the devil.
Ultimately, as long as there's a sporting reason to break the speed limit on public roads, drivers will do it. Until last weekend, there had never been a sporting penalty for a road section offence - even Ogier only got a fine for having an actual RTA, driving his car at a police officer and then speeding / running red lights in Zagreb (which as mentioned was the same reason Neuville broke the speed limit on Friday). I think this sets a dangerous precedent, and opens the door to teams pointing the finger at each others' drivers for any minor indiscretion on road sections - dangerous driving is dangerous driving, isn't it?
I hope Hyundai follow through with their appeal, and are successful.
lol, read better.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
never said it was right. just that is a bit funny that people pretend to be surprised or indignant, and also that once in a while become a big issue when almost all the time is not a big deal, while we all know that happens regularly and fia knows every inch of the race via gps system.
i don't like people taking pride of their pureness randomly once over a thousand times.
edit for clarity: not personal to you or any other in particular, just on the topic.
Great vid from J-Records like always https://youtu.be/FmsPBG3FgNU
so if something was accepted in 1990 or last year, it should still be accepted ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ouvreur
rules/penalties can't change ?
Remember that Neuville did overspeed 11km´s distance. There has never been different speeding rules for "empty dual carriageways"
Speeding will never stop if they don't get any penalty.
I understand your point if penalties are lighter in future again but I hope that for now on you will get penalty every time in every rally.
and this is just FIA ruling, local police could have tighter/looser laws in every rally. FIA rule is just minimum. (in Finland you loose automatically your license if you do 130km/h in 80 zone. Jari-Matti lost his this January , Tommi 2-years ago)
iQuote:
Originally Posted by ouvreur
Footage I saw of Neuville looked like a last minute undertake and dive for the slip road which would have been at least six points on my licence in the UK!
I would suspect there are far more instances of speeding and bad driving amongst members of the support caravan for major cycle races than there are on any WRC event or stage rally in general. The problem is we are setting our stall out with a holier than thou approach with this FIA Safety program and yet tacitly accepting that drivers may have to "speed" to catch up time. There are many eyes watching all aspects of motorised sport hoping for an opportunity to highlight its shortcomings and I can guarantee in my own country that the media would rather pick on this type of incident rather than cover the actual rally in their sports sections.
that's already arguable. i'm sure there were other minor speed infringements on this rally, like in any other, without sanctions. they punished the one that was "too big to tolerate". you think that's a good way to handle it?Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
Yes, there's an element of truth to this; however, it comes across as 'whataboutery'. You can't do these things anymore, it's 2022, especially with the FiA Road Safety campaign. Fines are useless; hit them hard, points deductions, and for regular transgressions, banning from events. 156km/h in an 80km/h zone is appalling and it's not his first time; he should really sit an event out. It's a good job the sport has a low profile, as it would be picked up on.Quote:
Originally Posted by ouvreur
No worries. Not trying to pretend anything, but as Sal said the drivers are supposedly ambassadors for road safety and also times change and what is acceptable changes. Roads and traffic are not the same as they were in the 90s. Also the famous Elena ride was stopped by police and almost not allowed to continue if I remember correctly, they were only allowed to go with an escort so even in Mexico 15 years ago some things were not acceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
But my main point is that in my opinion the sport can't afford a rta with injuries or major damage. The cars have trackers, even in dakar they penalize speeding in the villages...
I have no problem with time penalties for speeding on the road sections. But I do have a problem with the random way it happens now. It depends on the stewards what penalty you get (cfr Croatia last year, Estonna last year, Croatia this year).
They should make clear rules. Fine for small offences, time penalty for big offences (like 5" per kph over the limit for exemple) and than DQ for really big offences.
Than it's clear for everyone, no discussions, and drivers will think twice before speeding.
But as a codriver I just want to add, when you are in the car and getting late, you do everything you can to check in on time. It's just the way a (competitive) human works :)
yes, generally i think the same as dupanton. the thing i didn't stand is that kind of one-off to make a statement and then ignore everything for the next year, i find it really absurd.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
for me there's 2 way:
a: fia review all the tracking data at every service, check and penalize for any breach, not only speeding: red light, overtaking, and so on. (i guess anyone who followed a race live has an anecdote or two about rally cars on road mode, from wrc1 to the least regional competitor)
b: drivers are on their own responsibility as any other user of a public road. law enforcers will check for breaches and issue law-related fines or suspenzions.
One can imagine the headlines; especially from the well known rags. The sport wouldn't have a leg to stand on; and the MSUK would be in full damage limitation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal yet again
If it had been 80 vs 100kmh, then nobody would really care.. but double above the speed limit is something else.. and as mentioned before, not the first time.
Indeed - on the front page they would be about a celebrity doing something amusing or Boris Johnson lying again, and on the back they would be about football, or rugby, or cricket, or tennis. Not one mainstream publication gives even half a sh!t about rallying, unless someone has been killed that is...Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Bunnings vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjXb0z2XWuI
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/teams...ure-situation/
apparently a lot of the punctures happened together with cracked rims. I suppose the tires can't be blamed for punctures if the hit is so hard that the rim breaks.
You know, when there is no more rubber and you drive until the end of stage with rim or pieces of rubber still left, rim tends to break as well ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyund...enalty-appeal/
Hyundai will not appeal to Neuville's speeding penalty
It has not been noticed I think (or I miss it) but it is podium number 52 of Neuville in WRC: he ties with Solberg in 10th position all-time.
The other drivers he could catch this season:
- Auriol (9th with 53)
- Alen (8th with 56)
Complicated to catch Gronholm this season (7th with 61)
The next active driver (not being Ogier or Loeb) is Sordo with 51
Tanak a little far with 35
Teams defend Pirelli over Croatia puncture situation
Tires were a big talking point after several drivers picked up multiple punctures
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/teams...ure-situation/
Some drivers told: "I am happy I dont need to use Pirelli tyres on my way back home from the event." :DQuote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
loosers always need excuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
I assume they were using very low tire pressures on this event since it was so slippery?
Which again caused some of tires off the rim
Of course they defend Pirelli; as an official supplier, it's best not to say anything bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
they explain very good the reason,didnt you read the article?Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
first day 8 punctures at wrc 1 and all of them had 8 broken rims.
Do we have to say something more?
They can explain all they want.....Rally cars have been cutting on Tarmac events for years, I don't recall so many issues.
Yes, lot of issues were with broken rims which caused the punctures. And it was not about so much cutting than usual or lower tyre pressure like usual... Pirelli wet tyres are working completely different than Michelin ones. Also in mixed conditions Pirelli tyres are different than Michelin.
So what is the problem then. Is it really the tyres simply can't handle cuts? Genuine question. Seems a bit too easy to blame the tyres for everything.
There were total of 18 punctures in this event for Rally1 cars.
That’s too much IMO.
Breen was the only one who didn’t have, all the others did
Maybe the tyres can´t handle drivers misusing them. If construction limits says one thing and the user wants it to work out of the construction limits the outcome can only be failure. That´s a common rule for any mechanical gizmos.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
i am pretty sure you still havent read the article.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
The rain tire is always a difficult one because when it gets wet the drivers tend to go more off the road, and when they go more off the road they bring more s*** and then they expose more kerbs and more stones, and they make their own opportunities to get punctures,” he told DirtFish.
“It then drives you to say a wet tire should be stronger, but the way a wet tire picks up its grip is by being softer and if you make it stronger it doesn’t naturally get softer.
“We know that it works quite well as a wet tire when you’re on Tarmac. When you’re on a road that’s so narrow that we have here and you’re driven to go off the road so much… I mean when you see the stages on TV now they look more like gravel stages than Tarmac stages, so it’s difficult to say there’s a big problem when you’re driving a Tarmac car on a gravel stage basically.
more easy to understand...
a wet tyre doesnt have the same carcass as the dry tarmac tyres.
If you try to make a wet tyre with same carcass as a dry tarmac tyre,you will have the same durable tyre,but it will be almost undrivable at wet conditions.You are going to listen from drivers that is unpredictable etc.
wet tyre is not only the cuts and softer rubber.Needs to have a softer carcass so it will be more predictable at wet conditions where the grip changes very easy,and tyre has to ''warn'' the driver when grip is going to break.
yes a wet tyre is not the same structure as a dry tyre, so you can not cut as in other tarmac rallies with dry tyres.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
always wet tyres were like that.
how many of them were with broken rims? We know from article that first day all 8 punctures were with broken rims.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
we have to think also that drivers havent used to drive these wet tyres.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
If the tyre carcass is softer can the jumps also be a factor? Croatia has a lot of jumps for a tarmac rally.