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Obviously the Rally wasn't that interesting, but here is forming some interesting discussion.
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Originally Posted by
Lundefaret
Again: The engineer designs the rally car, the driver has to try to drive the optimal rally car with as few compromises as possible.
I can promise you that the engineer can make a rally car that is faster than todays WRC-cars (whitin the same regulations), but you would need an all knowing computer to drive it.
Regarding Audi and Röhrl: The Audi quattro Sport is a perfect example of this. Theoretically the shorter Audi quattro Sport was faster, then if you would have the same engine in the UR quattro, but it was to unstable for the drivers to take full advantage of this. Thath is why a compromise of the longer car would have been faster.
Yes, the original "Ur" Quattro was dezigned purely by engineers of course. But the "Sport" evolution is a product of driver's experiense with lot of understeering mostly. Those were the early days of Rallying, now things are little bit different and that's why I cited the example of Sainz & Polo - it is evolution in engineering a Rally car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lundefaret
But, regarding Audi in the Group B-era: Don´t forget that it was not the engineers that decided that the wantet to drive with the big and heavy engine hanging out in front of the front axle, it was the "clever" idea of the marketing department. And the marketing department is even worse at making good rally cars than the drivers;)
The Audi engineers wanted to have a mid engined car just like Peugeot and Lancia, and they even made it. It was a rally monster destined for the still born class called Group S, that was to follow Group B. It was an engineered made Audi, it was mid engined, light weight, and very powerful.
The engineers of AUDI did not invent the mid-engine, it has been Peugeot idea. Only after this huge Peugeot success some AUDI enthusiast engineers turned to this direction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lundefaret
The legend Walter Röhrl (wich I have been so lucky as to spend quite a lot of time with), can tell you that when the engineers got to decide, and not the marketing department, they made a truly marvelous rally car.He tried it once on a public road, and I think that you in the forrests of Bavaria still can hear an eccho from this day:)
You're lucky man indeed. That's trully amazing picture.
But, while trully trusting Rohrl's words, I think you little misinterpret them and put the egg before the hen. Engineers can learn and develop too, and all comes from past practical examples.
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Back from another great weekend at Rally de Portugal.
Ogier is truly far from everyone else, what is more scary is that he didn't look like he was pushing at all the whole weekend.
Hyundai very nice weekend even though not all cars finished, I can say that Neuville, Sordo and Hanninen all looked very fast, Sordo specially, I am now much more excited and enthusiastic about next year, I believe that if they continue their hard work they might have a car on par with the Polo next year.
Hirvonnen very surprising aswell, I think that he is slowly returning to his old good ways and speed, honestly I dont think anyone could do much better this weekend with a Fiesta.
Evans, Latvala and Kubica very dissapointing, Latvala didn't look that fast either before crash. We found Kubica on our way to spectator zone on 2nd pass of the Almodovar stage, they were stopped on road section, the recce car was there with trailer but the M-sport mechanics were trying to fix it so the car could go back to service on it's own ways.
Szczepaniak looked very dissapointed and I wouldn't be surprised if they both part ways before the end of the season.
Meeke I dont even know what to say, but honestly it was is first time here, it's not good rally to try to keep up with the front guys without experience.
Otsberg trying hard all the time, surprised to see him behind Hirvonnen.
The rally was great, funtastic spots and spectators, even If I think there was less spectators this year, the weather helped aswell, there were threats of rain but it ended up not raining on the whole weekend.
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nice video with well choosen points!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
stefanvv
Some very good points there, I was thinking "more directly" to current situation, a driver can react more quickly on circuits - like block his opponent's move for example, in more "general plan" You're right. Don't forget though in circuit racing drivers also have to manage their tyres, then the game is transferred in the box, some are shorter with less worn tyres and reused for next stint, longer stints, etc.
Indeed, tire management AND tire choice plays a very big role in the both the rally and circuit racing games. So much so that I was confused by those who criticized the first few legs of this year's Monte Carlo as being a competition of which team made better tire choices. It's all part of the game, no?
And if we really want to be literal about this "chess" analogy, I think the only racing that comes to mind which fits this description is touge racing as seen from the anime/manga Initial D. Basically, it involves two cars racing from start to finish through various mountain pass roads throughout Japan.
- In one version of the race, both cars start from the same position at the same time, and the winner is the one who crosses the finish line first.
- The other version of the race involves the one car in front, and the other behind in "chase" position. If the car in front manages to pull away far enough from the chase car, it wins. If the chase car passes the car in front, it wins. If the chase car manages to stick with the car in front at the finish line, the race is a draw and is re-run with positions switched. The race continues to be re-run until there's a winner.
Either way, if we're to believe the anime/manga developers, this touge racing is all about managing your tires, using your car's advantages at the right times, knowing when to attempt to pass your opponent if he/she is in front, knowing when to go on an all-out sprint to pull away, figuring out when your opponent is looking to go on an all-out sprint to try to pull away, etc. Usually, if the two competitors are somewhat evenly matched, each driver has a literal view of his/her opponent's car most of the time because he/she is trying figure out the best strategy to win the race based on the info he/she is seeing from the other driver.
So touge racing is as literal a representation of a chess match that one can get in the world of auto racing, especially the chase version of the race.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eli
an immidiate change between him and Kubica now!!
Speak to Lotos
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Really enjoyed the event from on the ground. Just stuck to the spectator zones but found good spots at Ourique/Malhao/Loule.
Great scenes high up at Malhao but it was like an advanced driving course trying to get out! Some breathing in required in the narrow places.
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ooopppppssssss!!!
We were leading by 10 seconds before the last stage and suddenly we receive an SMS to say we were just 0.8 from Jari. We decided to push and we won by 11 seconds. This was difficult for us. It’s easy to make mistakes when you are pushing to the maximum,” said Al Attiyah.
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc-2/news/201...8--51-51-.html
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Hirvonen was the only frontline driver to complete two passes through Ourique (SS3 / SS6) before flash flooding forced organisers to terminate Tuesday’s recce.
A revised Wednesday schedule enabled crews to complete their second pass, by which time the weather had improved significantly. Hirvonen requested an extra pass to offset the disadvantage of completing both runs in the storm, but that was refused.
“Everybody else was allowed to make the second pass on Wednesday after the rain,” said the M-Sport driver. “They saw the latest conditions and where the washaways and rocks were, which I didn’t have the chance to see in Tuesday’s rain.
“We had some words with the FIA which agreed we could have three passes so I could see the latest conditions, but the organisers said no.
“If conditions are extreme, organisers should change the recce schedule and we finish it after the bad weather. On some rallies it isn’t possible but if the time is there, we should do it. It’s rare that it’s so bad you can’t do a proper recce, but now we’ve seen that can happen,” added Hirvonen.
The Finn, who finished second in his Fiesta RS, said the issue didn’t affect his result, but stressed drivers should have up-to-date details on conditions to prevent surprises during the rally.
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/april...5--12-12-.html
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Fafe stage, day after Fafe Sprint
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A week later finally they uploaded a proper onboard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlaAgX_Se_0
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HbhZd20C7k
Karl Kruudas Rally De Portugal video. Very nicely made
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WRC Portugal 2014 Roundup
