Because at any moment someone else could come along who has more money.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
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Because at any moment someone else could come along who has more money.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
He is atleast showing improvement. The current level of the WRC means that the days when guys could come straight in and be at the front of the field are over. He's making progress and that is good.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
We should be a lot more critical of the guys that seem to be stagnant at the moment such as Ostberg, Neuville and to an extent Mikkelsen. We dont doubt these guys belong in the WRC but they need to show improvement. Ostberg had his breakthrough year in 2012 and how long ago is that now and he hasnt seemed to improve since then!
Although yes, Mikkelsen had a good rally. But he is stuck at a level just below what it takes to win a wrc round on pace alone. He needs to start battling for the win.
Agree with you about Neuville, but something has happened to him mentally, and I think the arrival of Paddon has made it worse. He should change teams. Mikklesen has been the de facto number 3 at VW for so long, I think he drives for 3rd place, every time; he also would benefit from a change of scenery. Your comments about Ostberg, well, you're just piling on. He's at M-Sport, what the hell do you expect?Quote:
Originally Posted by leighton323
So what you're saying is that it's M-Sport's fault? They both need to take responsibility which neither are doingQuote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
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When was the last time M-Sport were truly competitive? Even Ogier couldn't make the Fiesta a contender.Quote:
Originally Posted by leighton323
When was the last time M-Sport had a decent driver?Quote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
Latvala? Hirvonen before he went to Citroën?
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Here is a pressrelease from Østberg, in norwegian.
Someone maybe translate it If its interesting.
Its about the downshiftstroubles in his car.
https://bilsport.no/trobbel-for-ostberg/
I am convinced that Ogier would still be world champion in the Msport. He'd complain his ass off but he'd still be champion.
Of course he would be. You can't judge cars speed from Ostbergs times.Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
Everyone else seem to...
M-Sport on the new car they're building for 2016: http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home...d-for-2017-wrc
at the end it says it will be the new Fiesta.
also they are delayed because no chassis are available
I read this elsewhere... explains a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
But others here still wont believe and say he's just slow...
There's none so blind as them that dont want to see....
Sounds like a conspiracy theory to meQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Translated, for those that are not fluent in the world language Norwegian:
https://translate.google.com/transla...g%2F&sandbox=1
so fiesta wrc has a problem at their shifting system,and nobody else has undersand it.
Even the guys were faster from Ostberg at same rallies with fiesta wrc cars.
When was Ostberg fast and we consider him slow nowadays, Ostberg was NOTHING throughout his career, he had some potential but he is where he is because of daddy support.
If we bring back Hirvonen he is going to be faster than Ostberg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leighton323
Not for quite a while. And why do you think that is?
Anyone else watched Ostberg's on-boards from Portugal and seen or heard any problems from the down-change/gearbox area ?
I've watched a few of the stages where he was complaining most and cant tell anything... I guess its all in the feeling.
Also cant compare with Tanak as the OB camera is behind the driver...
Ostberg 4th in the Driver's Championship in 2015, when he had a decent car (DS3)... 'Best of the rest' vs the mighty VW's.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
If this makes Ostberg NOTHING, what does that make the others ?
It makes him consistent, less error prone than most his competitors. Speedwise he is average.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
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Indeed, but again what does that say about his competitors?Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
This argument is like a broken record, Ostberg is slow, Ostberg is making excuses. YES! But apart from Ogier, Latvala, Mikkelsen, Sordo no one can claim in recent times to be "better" than him from a results point of view. Meeke and Paddon have potential but they need to fulfill it.
as a fan i really dont care if Ostberg finishes best of the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
I prefere Paddons Meekes,Tanaks and Kubicas.
Do you imagine a championship full of Ostbergs? Booooooring.
Imagine now a championship with full of Meekes Paddons and Kubicas.
dimviii hit the nail right here.
Heheh, I know what you mean ;) the problem is Meeke and Kubica crash too much and Paddon is too new to comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Think about McRae or Makinen they crashed a lot but they also won a lot. So far Meeke and Kubica just crashed. Yes, Meeke is showing signs of going over that but 2 wins is too soon to judge.
I just mean in the last 3 years for various reasons Ostberg has been one of the best drivers. Having the 2nd or 3rd in the standings be a "boring" and "slow" driver unfortunately just shows the low level of the sport. But it's getting better, Ogier can be challenged by Mikkelsen, Paddon and Meeke. If at least one of them goes on Ogier's level we will forget about Ostberg.
no you didnt understant what i mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
i prefere Meeke Paddon and Kubica as they are today.Not when they will? be champions.
in my opinion, if tanak/meeke/paddon/latvala/kubica/mikkelsen type drivers adopted the approach of Ostberg and just drove for points instead of the win, then i feel they would be more reliable and consistent, BUT still be faster than Ostberg and relegate him down the driver's standing.
however, good sportsmen/women are not generally wired to settle for "second" spot. They must have that natural desire to win when the opportunity presents itself...its like a craving.
Alright, fair enough if you're interested about the spectacular driving, dimviii. But to me a top rally driver must also bring his car to the finish. McRae and Makinen could do it among all the crashing. Even Latvala can but for me Kubica unfortunately is not a good rally driver (but I hoped he would be), Meeke and Paddon maybe can be. That's not to say slow and steady are ideal WRC drivers, they are part of the picture sure, but the appeal of rally is having fast drivers that can finish a rally, otherwise it's pointless.
Saying it´s not spectacular seeing Ostberg on stages doesn´t make sence. Boring says the one who doesn´t se him live. He wouldn´t have been where he is without being enough spectacular. It starts to be boring when guys like Prokop comes, however even he can sometimes in some parts look spectacular.
Too generalising about what is spectacular.
Dimvii, you must excuse me, but once again we have absolutely different eyes to look at fast drivers.
I don't think that the privates are boring. Sometimes they're the ones most spectacular. Groban was all over the place where I was in Marão. Not fast, ok, but good to watch. Same for Al-Rajhi. Prokop it's a bit more tidy up. Brakes earlier than the top guys, but very clean driving. About Ostberg, I can understanf that maybe the Fiesta it's not the best, but he seems a bit slower than the rest of the top guys. I only see fast spots on Saturday because I was working on the street stage on Friday and in the last jump on Sunday. But where I saw him, he was a little hesitant, brake a little earlier, etc etc. Ostberg it's a good second driver. The one that races for manufacters points, not for rally wins... and that's about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Yeah its soooo boring to finish rallies and pick up points for your team.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
If the other drivers did a bit more of this instead of crashing every other event they might put some pressure on the VWs.
why you do this to yourself ? there are so many other beautiful sports out there... golf, tennis, butterfly hunting... you should expand your horizonsQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
I really don't understand why some think Østberg is boring to watch, at least when he had confidence in his car he is wery spectacular.
He is probably not WDC material, but he is not boring at stage.
its obvious that you havent got a clue about what are you watching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
So if we had 5 Ostbergs, Ogier and vw would feel pressure. lolololololol
yes ,if instead of Meeke and Paddon and Neuville and Sordo we had Ostbergs,Ogier would feel pressure.
As NOT said change sport.
I said that a championship of Ostberg type drivers would be boooooring.Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
Read carefully.
Well, i really can't agree in that, a championship only with spectacular drivers, It don't see that as a bad thing. Speed is one thing, show is another.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
I said if those other 'exciting' drivers in the factory teams finished more rallies they might put some pressure on the VW's.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Its no good being super fast and exciting then scoring no points. Ostberg has circumstances at the moment but still scores points.
The others with their big teams and faster cars have no excuse. Ogier is running away with another title but all you want is a few exciting stages from the 'challengers' and then he wins the title. Again.
PS. Dont lower yourself to NOT's level, I thought you were better than that.
Your personal comments are not welcome here.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Blocked again.
the problem is not that drivers crash, the problem is that some drivers don't crash.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
ogier and loeb are/were not unbeatable purely on speed, but they are far more consistent while driving as fast as the competition.
Again, we're always dealing in absolutes.
Even if there are only two styles, fast and steady, isn't there room for both? Most teams have at least 2 seats anyway.
Personally, I enjoy the variety of styles in the field.
I still don't understand how you people have the strength to debate this endlessly... somehow the subject should be depleted by now.