R-Classes News

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Originally Posted by Hazza555)

He doesn't need a source. He stating his opinion, not a fact. "I think..., but imagine..."

I tend to agree with him I can see R5 becoming the next top flight category or the basis of. Make manufacturers homologate a R5 car and then allow a spec upgrade from R5 to WRC, basically bigger restrictor and more wing :) . So sort of the opposite way round to RRC/1.6T S2000. And the spec upgrade from R5 to WRC should be available to all, with a price cap. The move to production based engines is vital I believe. The next evolution of the Fiesta WRC could quite easily be an R5 with 300 horses, some aero and 6 speed 'box.

If this was to happen there would be huge number of potential manufacturers and cars available already with such interest in the R5 category, probably much to the dismay of VW.

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You suggest almost same thing what was tried with RRC/WRC and didn't proved itself as healthy solution. It didn't help bring cost of WRC down but helped bring cost of RRC up on WRC elevel. There is no need to repeat same mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Doesn't matter what was the idea, it will never work unless there are no big players directly involved in the competition. It can work in feeder classes but never in top category.

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My understanding is that manufacturers will build cars to Group R specifications, and make them available at a fixed price that is determined by the FIA. That way, competitive cars will be available at relatively low prices, theoretically opening the sport up to more competition. Manufacturers could support selected teams so that they have a stake in what is happening, but the idea is to keep costs down.

But wasn't that the same idea for S2000 cars and for RRC cars as well? No one stuck to the fixed price.

Even for current WRC cars there are limits of prices, even for particular components...

The R5 cars will just become like the current WRC's. They will look no different and speed wise be the same to the spectator.

They will become as expensive as the current WRC's and the biggest problem will be no self build possible from a road car. ie you can only buy from the manufacturers approved motorsport company if it is not the manufacturer themselves.

What the FIA need to do is bring the top end cars to road car bodywork and driven wheels. That will take a chunk out of the cost of the cars for starters.

I don't believe R5 will become as expensive as the Current WRC's, at least if FIA keeps the rules they made now. Talking about time before revision etc. For S2000 they started making engines that lasted just one rally... Also there are more manufacturers I think (Ford, Peugeot, Skoda, Citroën, Opel, any others?), so there should be some competition, not just to have the fastest car, but also to sell some number (and keep the price on a realistic number) of cars.

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Originally Posted by tommeke_B

I don't believe R5 will become as expensive as the Current WRC's, at least if FIA keeps the rules they made now. Talking about time before revision etc. For S2000 they started making engines that lasted just one rally... Also there are more manufacturers I think (Ford, Peugeot, Skoda, Citroën, Opel, any others?), so there should be some competition, not just to have the fastest car, but also to sell some number (and keep the price on a realistic number) of cars.

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I think that might be the truth, I heard form many "rally" people that even current WRC cars are cheapier than 2.0 ones it is still more expensive to run them. I mean a team needs to have much bigger budget for a season than they used to.

I just look at homologation by FIA, and see a new thing on engine for the Corsa S2000...
whereas nothing was homologated on the car since 2009.
Why, and what could be it ?

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Originally Posted by vino_93

I just look at homologation by FIA, and see a new thing on engine for the Corsa S2000...
whereas nothing was homologated on the car since 2009.
Why, and what could be it ?

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And I just discover that Toyota has homologated a Vitz R1B last year (it is different car from the new runned in APRC).

Breen test today
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...64412064_n.jpg

Not long to go until Ypres.

Breen 208 R5 - YouTube

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Originally Posted by vino_93

And I just discover that Toyota has homologated a Vitz R1B last year (it is different car from the new runned in APRC).

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I think Vitz is same car as Yaris

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Originally Posted by pantealex

I think Vitz is same car as Yaris

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yep

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Originally Posted by pantealex

I think Vitz is same car as Yaris

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It's the same model, but the Vitz is a R1B, homologated mid 2012, whereas the Yaris is a R1A, homologated january 2013 ;)

Fabia RRC testing
iRally | The free independent Rally App for the iPhone, iPad and Android

I thought that S2000 and by extension RRC fall under Group A and that no new Group A homologations were permitted after 1st January 2013?

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Originally Posted by Sulland

Fabia RRC testing
iRally | The free independent Rally App for the iPhone, iPad and Android

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It was written in different thread, this info is not correct. This is turboengine which will be used in Fabia R5. Article in czech language with more correct info you can find here (Autosport), its english summary I wrote to "news" thread here.

TEST DAYS Peugeot 208 T16 R5 By Craig BREEN SouthFrance PURE SOUND HD - YouTube

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Originally Posted by Vaggelis27

TEST DAYS Peugeot 208 T16 R5 By Craig BREEN SouthFrance PURE SOUND HD - YouTube

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Confirms what will happen, as in the car will look no different to the current WRC and RRC ones to the average spectator.

FIA will probably phase out WRC/RRC and then R5 will become the top category. They could easily then allow 33mm instead of the current 32mm for R5 and then it is back to a 'special' build rally car (custom bodywork and 4WD system, both not on the road car) that one can only buy from the manufacturer (or manufacturers agent).

Estonians Karl Kruuda and Timmu Kõrge were testing Fiesta R5 today Attachment 3155

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Originally Posted by vino_93

It's the same model, but the Vitz is a R1B, homologated mid 2012, whereas the Yaris is a R1A, homologated january 2013 ;)

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Not only the engine is different (1.3l / 1.5l) but also the chassis (3d / 5d).

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Originally Posted by vino_93

I just look at homologation by FIA, and see a new thing on engine for the Corsa S2000...
whereas nothing was homologated on the car since 2009.
Why, and what could be it ?

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A danish team is now running a Corsa S2000 and i know they have been trying to get some engine parts homologated for it, seems like they have succeded.

Fiesta R200

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BMf6cn6CcAAqclX.jpg

What is that?

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Originally Posted by Mirek

What is that?

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R2 with 200 bhp??? ;)

It seems that "that" is the new Fiesta R2...let's call it Evo

Thanks to all. Finally "proper" R2 from M-Sport :)

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Thanks to all. Finally "proper" R2 from M-Sport :)

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Wait and see how "proper" it is...
http://t.co/0i8jwDHjRE

I have to say I'm impressed. They managed to make the R5 Fiesta look just like a Fiesta.

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Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys

I have to say I'm impressed. They managed to make the R5 Fiesta look just like a Fiesta.

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??

The Fiesta R5 looks closer to a Fiesta WRC than a Fiesta. I think you mean Fiesta R200 looks just like a Fiesta, as the rules for R1, 2, 3 do not permit body kitting.

Here is Malcolm Wilsons take on the Fiesta R5 for the WRC.com feature
World Rally Championship - News - Wilson: New R5 a big step forward

I was being facetious.

To the man on the street, the R5 Fiesta looks like every other rallying Fiesta. The external changes are there, but they're mostly cosmetic. It's the stuff under the skin that counts.

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Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys

I was being facetious.

To the man on the street, the R5 Fiesta looks like every other rallying Fiesta. The external changes are there, but they're mostly cosmetic. It's the stuff under the skin that counts.

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Got ya! :)

Always difficult to know the style of conversation when just reading the words from not hearing the voice of the person.

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Originally Posted by navtheace

Got ya! :)

Always difficult to know the style of conversation when just reading the words from not hearing the voice of the person.

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The inherent problem of the internet. Sometimes there just isn't an emoticon to express your tone

R classes were set up as like a comparable to GpA, ie no changes to driven wheels, engine induction and bodywork from road car. Yet R5 is not like that at present.

Coming back to R3, any news on the new Fiesta 1.6 turbo road car to be homologated into an R3T car?

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Originally Posted by navtheace

R classes were set up as like a comparable to GpA, ie no changes to driven wheels, engine induction and bodywork from road car. Yet R5 is not like that at present.

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No, it wasn't. Since the start it was meant to allow larger modifications for stronger engines, i.e. R1 is smallest engine and the least modifications, R2 is bigger engine and more modifications, R3 even bigger engine and even larger modifications etc. R5 is a logical peak of the pyramid.

Is there a plan for a new R4 class? The current R4 class is not in sync with the rest.

And do we see any signs on that the old Japanese brands Subaru and Mistubishi are on their way in again for the R classes, apart from the current R4?
Toyota is planned back, but how far are they?

Is Mitsubishi interested in rally anymore ? no.
Are in general manufacturers interested in developping cars not allowed to win races in WRC or ERC ? No. So ... you can do all the regulation you want, if only 3 or 4 manufacturers are interesting in selling rally cars ... you'll have any more cars.

Maybe if local teams can develop himself some cars corresponding to FIA regulation you would have more R4 (and R3, R2, R1 ...).

Well Mitsubishi is the basic car of every local rally. So they won´t dissappear too soon, as there is no successor.

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Originally Posted by Sulland

Is there a plan for a new R4 class? The current R4 class is not in sync with the rest.

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My understanding is that R4 will eventually be discontinued altogether. It's more a class to put current cars that don't fit in under any other Group R regulations than anything else.