Printable View
I find it very telling that Ecclestone has been so willing to cosy up to someone who was basically a convicted criminal. Big believer in rehabilitation, is he? To how many non-wealthy individuals found guilty of a serious crime and given a jail sentence would he extend the same friendship?
Still he was more than good in GP2, only 2nd to a certain Hamilton. It looks to me that he was good enough to be in GP2 not like someone who struggled to get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
Than again him doing well in GP2 is a fact while, please allow me to quote you, 'to think he probably would have struggled to even make GP2 without some of the underhand goings on back there, let alone the budget his team was running on compared to the others' is just a wild assumption.
actually , I would agree with Ioan...my first recollection of piquet jr has been the GP2 season in which he gave Hamilton quite a good fight.
but then I suppose i'll have to read up on his escapades on the SA F3 championship though...thanks for the headsup @ Robinho :)
How good you are in other motorsports sometimes is irrelevant. Bourdais was good in F3000, Champ Car, Le Mans and now in Superleague, but...
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before so apologies if I'm repeating something that's already been covered...
It seems that at the time of the crash there was already a suspicion that NP Jnr had deliberately crashed his car. It also seems that the telemetry supports this point of view. So... since the telemetry must have been available to the FIA at that time and since there were already doubts about whether this was an accident, how come the FIA didn't investigate at the time? Was this a deliberate 'sweeping under the carpet' by the FIA? Or did they have to wait until allegations had been made?
Regards
you have missed my point (for a change), being that there were some decidedly fishy things going on in the Piquet camp, which have led me to be unsurprised that Piquet was a willing participant in this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
to have reached GP2, raced as well as he did then and then made it to F1, even if he looked pretty weak most of the time when he did, proves he is undoubtedley a decent and quicj driver - all i was saying is that perhaps he was a bit fortunate to have got picked up and been able to prove his pace in GP2 when you look back at how he made his name before that. and of course, no-one gets anywhere without a bucketload of cash in this business whether its your own or someone elses, but there were things not exactly of a level playing field in his earlier career so i won't feel too bad for the guy now he is bleating on about the treatment he's received.
also being 2nd to Hamilton might not say back if the rest of the field were no good - he was close to Hamilton then and is now not even classed in the same field by most i would think, given that no-one was rushing to sign him before, during or after Renault
You forgot to say that the Renault was as fast as the McLaren last season and this season and also jr has been the number one driver at renault just like Lewis at McLaren.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
Sarcasm aside he got Renaults first podium finish last season while Alonso was busy spinning out in the midfield. But I suppose that some people are set to only bring up the negatives, so I'll be happy to provide some balance. :)
podium earned - thanks to a safety car!Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
if you think Piquet, Singapore-gate aside, has done enough to warrant a place in F1 then great, but i have seen nothing to suggest that myself. he has crashed or spun at most races to the point it has become a running joke and all the time whilst not being close to the same pace as his teammate 95% of the time.
perhaps you have a point with the number 1 thing - Piquet has had his own team pretty much all his career, so not used to the pressure to perform in that respect, and i agree Flav has not always been the easiest to drive for, but you'd expect at least glimpses of talent that would single him out for an extended F1 career.
so we have a crash prone, not quick enough, mentally fragile and willing to cheat for negatives and was quick enough to come 2nd in GP2 and decent enough to get an F1 drive as positives - is that balanced enough for you! ;)
yeah, piquet benefitted from Glocks crash to come out from the safety car in 2nd behind Hamilton, but Hamilton hadn't pitted and had to pit shortly after and retook Massa and Piquet to win. Piquet did not give much of a fight, but it is difficult to resist a much faster car on that track (so why we don't go there every year i don't know, seeing as overtaking isn't just possible, its likely!)Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
By far Piquets best result, and although he lucked into teh position thanks to the safety car, was able to be quick enough and not crash to keep it. it was the only time i'd say he looked like he belonged in F1 long term
http://api.ning.com/files/2D12wzLl5-...n_facepalm.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by hmmm - donuts
Basically, your post is #786, so I would say "yeah!" ; chances are that there may have been a little discussion on these and other events. Here's the summary of events from Autosport: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78682
And even now they are comparing Alonso's data against Piquet. We should be looking at a few different laps of Piquet instead of muddying the waters with Alonso's data. Each driver's style will be different.* Anyway isn't this just a bigger case of team orders? Haven't we seen that to varying degrees over the years? They should just dole out the standard team orders penalty. To a degree it was still quite lucky for Alonso to win. He could easily have finished lower down the ranks ... would we be still as upset about it if he'd finished 9th?Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmm - donuts
* - have a look at the previous straight. Piquet is flat for way longer than Alonso. Is this due to traffic? Or style? Gearing? What?
I think it is due to your not acquainting yourself with all the facts of the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by grantb4
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78577
sorry to post something which already might have been covered but this article is about Barrichello slamming Briatore for his tasteless remarks on NP Jr
excerpt from the article
Barrichello said the newly painted helmet that he was using at the Italian Grand Prix was in part a homage to say how much he missed Piquet, and fellow Brazilian Felipe Massa, in F1.
And although he has had his differences with Piquet's father, he said he had nothing but respect for Nelsinho.
When asked if he missed Nelson, Barrichello said: "Nelson Sr? Not a chance! But Nelsinho has always been very respectful I think.
"After all the bad things that Nelson put in the press about myself, Nelsinho has been very, very good to my side, and we have a great respect from each other. I felt sorry for him in a way."
http://www.crash.net/f1/News/151221/...f1_future.html
and also quoting Alonso on Piquet....Understand both articles might be dated,but Alonso doesn't seem to be the kinda guy who would give empty undeserved praise to somebody...
Well, Jr can hardly be described as receiving empty undeserved praise from Fernando - he crashed his car last year so Fernando could win, for God's sake. Isn't that praiseworthy enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by harsha
The fact that the team focused more on Alonso doesn't surprise me. I think they've made the right choice. But these allegations that the team held him back because he was no. 2 driver aren't too logic... I mean... since Renault wasn't in position to fight for the wdc the only thing they could hope for was the best position in the wcc and for that they needed maximum from both drivers. So why then would they deliberately undermine one of the their drivers to finish most of the races at the back of the field.
That crash brought more points to the team than his drive could have... that evening :laugh:
Or Tamburello and Flavio for that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
:D
Has Tamb left the forum? I thought that as his team is Renault, he would happily come on here and admit it was not a load of rubbish as he claimed but was fact and Renault have cheated.
Knowing Tamburello, he will probably call it good strategy using fair and hard racing and they have done nothing to be ashamed of :laugh:
http://www.canada.com/Piquet+senior+...315/story.html
Quote:
"Anyway, in Brazil I talk to Charlie," he continued.
"I got him and said ’Look what could happen to Nelson if I bring this up? And I was afraid to screw up the career of Nelson."
Piquet added later: "In the race in Brazil I called Charlie and I told the whole story to Charlie."
There's nothing in that article about Charlie being escorted to the airport by armed men wearing sunglasses. :eek:
If it were anyone except the Piquets or David Richards I would be ready to tar and feather Flav and Symonds. But somehow I have a hard time supporting broken valor among thieves!!
FIA being fair? is an unlikely conclusion but in 2009, FIA seem about to apply some perverted corporate zero tolerance, assisted by F1 sportsmedia like BBC's Brundle.
Fairness would be punishment given for intentionally crashing into direct competitor who would have won championship, on last lap of last race in TWO consecutive race seasons by MS "equivalent" to current firings at McLaren and now Renault and foolish comments by F1 driver named Brundle that PiquetJr should never drive again.
Michael, "best driver ever"? or rookie driver Piquet do not deserve Brundle's foolish comments and nor do the whole Renault team deserve to be punished by FIA High Court zero tolerance.
Fortunately, Michael and Ferrari team did not have F1 sportsmedia like Brundle -- not that long ago.
I don't know why you bother, we all know that you hate Richards, Theissen and the Piquets.Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
We also know you love Alonso and apparently Flav. :p :
Yeah Brundle was born just after Schumacher retired! And there were no journalists before him. :rotflamo:Quote:
Originally Posted by tec4
That didn't happen in 2 consecutive seasons and MS got the punishment anyway the second time, so it was kind of pointless in mentioning that; and there is fairness to some extent in FIA, considering this is F1, not a non-profit motoring enthusiastics club.
Well, quite. I didn't understand most of the post you quote, to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
very good article today
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78732
Forgive me for being cynical, but when the SPANISH motorsport head - who previously slammed Renault's one-race ban because it would affect Alonso - goes on-record slamming NPJ for starting this (and if he hadn't been offered immunity, he would never have said anything and everyone knows it), I'm a tad sceptical about his motives...
Why should the punishment be difference between Michael Schumacher's intentional crash into Hill and Villeneuve in the last "championship-deciding" race of TWO seasons and PiquetJr intentional crash into a Pat Symonds-indicated safe WALL? so that Alonso could win a single non-championship deciding race.
Both rookie PiquetJr and NOT-rookie Michael had a choice, in which they failed the sport of FormulaOne.
After Michael's repeated violation, he did seem to get why it was wrong but not because of sportmedia exclusives from the likes of Brundle, Lauda, Gracia suggesting that anyone connected to Renault should exit F1 forever -- unlike Michael losing something he has already lost when he was not successful in knocking Villeneuve off the winning lap.
Very different world we live in when the punishment changes to suit Brundle, Lauda, Gracia extremists.
Why do we hear this story and not the glorious hi-tech designs of FormulaONE? MotoGP or Bourdais wins SuperLeague are much more fun to watch.
Maybe because the two situations are very different?!Quote:
Originally Posted by tec4
I think there is a significant difference between an orchestrated attempt at race-fixing and a (very) unwise move on the part of a driver. The latter happens all the time. I consider Schumacher's moves on Hill and Villeneuve pretty indefensible but in no way comparable with this Renault situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by tec4
I don't get the point of this criticism of the media. Renault attempted to fix a race and have, in effect, been found guilty. Opinions differ as to how serious this is, and this is reflected in comment on the subject. Nothing wrong with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by tec4
Yep great piece of hypocrisy from the Spanish guy:Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
I wonder if Senor Gracia has aired the same feeling about Fernando Alonso and Pedro de la Rosa being given immunity in Spygate 2 years ago. I somehow doubt it that he was calling for Alonso and PDLR's heads back then, which makes him an effin' hypocrite who better kept quiet now.Quote:
Gracia believes Piquet is equally culpable in the affair and should also face the hearing.
"This kid, if it was up to me, wouldn't be allowed to walk blind people on the sidewalk," Gracia told Spanish radio station Onda Cero. "It's such yobbish behaviour from which he has also benefited, because, like he says in his sworn statement, he did it so he would get a contract renewal for 2009, and he will be paid until the end of the year.
"In that case this is a person should not only be sanctioned by the Council and the FIA, but he should also be prosecuted in an ordinary court.
"I found out through the press that Mr Nelsinho was going to get immunity. It would be a total shamelessness if this happened in the FIA."
Michael's action against Hill and Villenenuve were a direct threat to the life of himself, Hill, and Villeneuve WHILE PiquetJr threatened his life and the paint on the wall -- assuming no other after-crash incident in each case, yet PiquetJr is banned for life according to Brundle, Lauda, Gracia.
I see how "fixing" reminds people of American sports like Boxing but sportsmedia's broadcasting that suggests the end of Renault team competition, with no connection beyond the three directly involved is silly except that it puts money in the pockets of FIA, when there was no Ferrari team connection to Michael.
Sportmedia have the choice to broadcast or NOT, broadcast latest "Britney photo"/London Sun junk mail from Brundle etc. or broadcast more about latest F1 Technology. What is the purpose of stating the obvious effect on the three directly involved, except for publicity value to Brundle's contract.
What is otherwise the best F1 season of all time, for more than Ferrari and McLaren, will be remembered for extremist Brundlisms about fixing in previous F1 season, while there were no extreme broadcasts about Michael's direct threat to life of competitors.
AGAIN, why is the punishment due to loss of life severity of the PiquetJr different from the Schumacher case? because one was pre-arranged by more than one criminal?
I really am struggling to understand what point you are making.
You are missing the possibilities for a mass tar and feathering, sort of like the gallows the judge used in "Hand 'Em High."Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
ClarkFan
Final Answer: That PiquetJR told "anyone" is deserving of an award for the ...est, except maybe that PiquetSenior would ask if his action would affect rookie Renault driver Piquet, as personal revenge? at least Michael wanted to be champion that bad but PiquetSenior?..............and now out of the mud and back to FormulaONE......
Yes, hypocrite is the first word that comes to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Offtopic but best season of all time? Is this your first year of F1? Remember 2007, 2008? The first part of this year was terribly boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by tec4
Looks like that to me. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
Saw this in the paper today, and thought maybe it could enlighten those who said everyone should have left it under the carpet...
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...sness-1.920911
The point you make above in my opinion makes it two completely different situations. MS alone was responsible for his actions, and I seriously doubt it was planned well before the fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Renault ochestrated a false result, pressuring a driver into doing something he should have had the backbone to say no to regardless.
Even murder has different consequences for acts that are premeditated.
This bugger obviously scanned through this thread and then decided to write an enlightened article for his boss, hoping to get a raise off the brilliant observations and telling deductions from the experts who gave their opinions in this thread. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody