2014 Pre-Season Testing

Another view on the RB/Renault brewing fiasco, from the Judge13...

http://thejudge13.com/2014/03/04/hippos ... -no-mercy/

:facelick:

Great!! Thanks for the link da da da daddy-o :stareup: :bandit:

Saw this on another forum where Motorsport-total.com released an article about what marko had to say about renault in a tv-show called 'Servus TV'

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"Der Auftakt kommt für uns mindestens zwei Monate zu früh. Und das wird eine ganz schwierige Angelegenheit, das aufzuholen. Momentan wissen wir nicht, in welchem Zeitrahmen es überhaupt möglich ist und ob es möglich ist."

The start of the season comes at least two months too early for us. It's really going to be hard to catch up. Right now, we don't even know how long it's going to take and if it is even possible to catch up at all.

Marko about the reasons of why renault ran into troubles came jerez and why they still can't seem to find a solution:
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"Renault hat im Vergleich zu Ferrari und Mercedes den Motor nur als Verbrennungsmotor auf dem Prüfstand laufen lassen - ohne Getriebe. Mit dem Getriebe kommen thermische Probleme, Vibrationen. Als dann die gesamte Einheit zum Einsatz gekommen ist, hat man erst gesehen, welche Probleme auftreten - davor dachten die, dass ihr Antriebsstrang funktioniert."

Compared to ferrari and mercedes, renault did let the engine run as an internal-combustion engine only in their test bed - without the gearbox (whatever that means?!). [But] you'll get thermall problems, vibrations when you include the gear(box). They first figured out there were problems, once the entire unit was tested - before that, renault thought their drive train would work as anticipated.

Marko about the driveability of the renault engine:
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"Das Zusammenspiel der unterschiedlichen Elemente des Antriebsstrangs sei der Kern des Übels. Zudem hat man noch enorme Probleme mit der Fahrbarkeit: Die Motorleistung setzt zu abrupt ein, und bei Vollgas liegt man gegenüber Ferrari und vor allem Mercedes im Rückstand." [...] "Zuerst steigst du aufs Gas, aber die Leistung kommt nicht [...] und dann kommt sie urplötzlich, die Räder drehen durch, dadurch rutscht das Auto, du verlierst Speed, aber auch Drehzahl, weil du wieder vom Gas musst."

'The interplay between the different elemenst of the power unit is the core of all problems. Plus there are tremendous problems in terms of driveability. The output of the engine is way too sudden. Also we're behind ferrari and mercedes 'full throttle wise'
[...] 'You tap the gas, but their's simply no power [...] just to realize it comming extremely sudden at one point, you get wheelspin, as an result, the car goes sideways, you lose speed as well as revs, due to the driver having to go off the power.'

Marko about what kind of 'failure'/'mistake' the renault power unit suffers from:
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[...] deutet an, dass es sich nicht um ein mechanisches, sondern vorrangig um ein Software-Problem handelt.
[Marko] implies, that it is not a mechanical, but primarily a software-problem.
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[...] "denn scheinbar ist auch die Korrelation ein Problem. Das, was der Renault-Prufstand anzeigt, ist in der Realität nicht gegeben."

[...] 'apparently there's also a corellation problem. The data comming from the renault test-bed doesn't match what's going on in reality'/[or what it is supposed to be like in reality]

Marko about Red Bulls cooling-issues
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"Das liegt daran, dass wir von Renault keine Daten bekommen haben, wie heiß das wird, wie viel Luftdurchfluss man benötigt."

'The reason for that is, we didn't get any data about how hot it would get, how much airflow would be required.' (He's also saying that the renault teams got the power unit in its whole in jerez first)


Almost unbelievable. Lots of finger pointing will likely be done by both sides but If there is much truth in what Marko says, what more can one really say about Renaults monumental basic failures here?
If true I just feel really sorry for all the Renault engined teams... especially Caterham and Lotus who were already teetering on the brink of oblivion.

Well, are you really surprised? I wrote the 'Hippo's View from the Waterhole' article linked above before the Marko interview was published. It was plain to see for everyone that Renault had effed up. The software broke down on the very first day of testing at Jerez, which means they hadn't tested it at all.
Renault operated on half the budget of Merc and Ferrari. How do you do that? Well 20 years in the industry have taught me that the first thing companies do is getting rid of expensive experts and hire younger, less experienced people, who they can pay less. We have a saying in Germany: "Kaufste Scheisse, kriegste Scheisse." (If you order shit, you'll get shit). Renault never tested their software in an emulator. They vomited some modem noise into a file and hoped it would work, but it didn't. How in the name of all that's holy did they expect to do with 250 engineers what Merc threw 500 engineers at?

That was you, dj? :eek: I went and re-read it and there are some similarities in writing style, though I suspect a spell-checker was used for that one :D

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Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles

That was you, dj? :eek: I went and re-read it and there are some similarities in writing style, though I suspect a spell-checker was used for that one :D

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Yep, of course I use a spell-checker ;) In fact I'm usually ribbing the judge about the fact that my articles have less spellink mistakez in them than his and I'm a kraut, while he's a native speaker :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

Well, are you really surprised? I wrote the 'Hippo's View from the Waterhole' article linked above before the Marko interview was published. It was plain to see for everyone that Renault had effed up. The software broke down on the very first day of testing at Jerez, which means they hadn't tested it at all.
Renault operated on half the budget of Merc and Ferrari. How do you do that? Well 20 years in the industry have taught me that the first thing companies do is getting rid of expensive experts and hire younger, less experienced people, who they can pay less. We have a saying in Germany: "Kaufste Scheisse, kriegste Scheisse." (If you order shit, you'll get shit). Renault never tested their software in an emulator. They vomited some modem noise into a file and hoped it would work, but it didn't. How in the name of all that's holy did they expect to do with 250 engineers what Merc threw 500 engineers at?

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Well, yeah, I was actually very surprised. It's not like Renault are a small time engine manufacturer with inadequate resources and/or experience but as you say, the old guard will be long gone replaced, it seems, by lower paid and less experienced individuals fresh out of Uni.
What I really can't get my head round is how Red Bull even tried to build and package a car without knowing the engine and ERS cooling requirements, I've only recently (lightly) studied thermal and aerodynamic efficiency in jet turbine designs in Aero engineering which obviously sits very high in the long list of design requirements in the world of aviation... but I'd have thought that was a fairly basic fundamental requirement that really needs to be known at design stage with F1 cars also if you were serious about competing at the quick end of the grid?

Liked your 'Hippo' article btw.. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

Well, are you really surprised? I wrote the 'Hippo's View from the Waterhole' article linked above before the Marko interview was published. It was plain to see for everyone that Renault had effed up. The software broke down on the very first day of testing at Jerez, which means they hadn't tested it at all.
Renault operated on half the budget of Merc and Ferrari. How do you do that? Well 20 years in the industry have taught me that the first thing companies do is getting rid of expensive experts and hire younger, less experienced people, who they can pay less. We have a saying in Germany: "Kaufste Scheisse, kriegste Scheisse." (If you order shit, you'll get shit). Renault never tested their software in an emulator. They vomited some modem noise into a file and hoped it would work, but it didn't. How in the name of all that's holy did they expect to do with 250 engineers what Merc threw 500 engineers at?

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Dawg; I've read that in the engine department Merc has around double the recourses than Ferrari. Did Renault punk out that badly, or are we about to see Ferrari crumble in the wake of the Mercedes juggernaut?

Have Renault and Ferrari been asleep,or complacent or both.We all knew long ago about the new engines for 2014,as all the F1 competitors.Lewis knew Mercedes where going to have a lead in engine development in late 2012,when he left McLaren ,for Mercedes .So how could these French and Italian motor manufacturers be caught out so badly ? There is a possibility there could be some sandbagging by the Italians ,but were Renault SO confident,after the last 4 years ,that they could lie in bed so late and long as to be caught out ?You reap what you sow ! I have NO sympathy !

How do youn know that Ferrari were caught out so "badly"? They logged a lot of lap-dawgs, dawg! :laugh:Do you have some salacious info about the state of the Ferrari PU :dork:
As of now their concerns seem to be with electronics. not lump or aero, just a matter of getting the right amount of current without too much resistance through the system dawg ! :stareup: :stareup: :stareup: :stareup: