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That is absolutly false. The Founders from the beginning were clear that they were mearly exerting their rights as British subjects. They felt that the Crown had violated their rights. They sent petitions to Parliment stating thus. Those petitions were ignored, or worse, so they exercised their right of revolution granted to them by "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God"Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
If a man kills another who is threatening them they are simply protecting their own right to Life. How is that hard to understand?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
I don't know who said it, but I've heard "The Constitution is not a suicide pact". Well neither is the right to Life.
If both are murderers and one kills the other, why does one murderer have the right to life and the other not?Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Where is this right written down, other than your philosophical opinion?
God says one can kill a night intruder without know ANYTHING about the intruder's intent.
THAT would then be the right to kill. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
Then why does our Bill of Rights differ from the ones written for the subjects of the Crown?Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
The guy that moves to violate another's right to life First is the murderer, the other is only defending himself. Big difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Again, your infatuation with things being written down in "law". Does that help you when someone arbitrarily votes to strip you of your rights?
You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You are the one standing behind written law to give you your rights. But when presented with situations where the written law violates your rights, you say you'll just take justice in your own hands. What authority do you derive your justice from, written law, or your own interpretation?
Because once the Crown/Parliment forced their hand and required a separation to become necessary, they took steps to try to avoid the necessity from happening in the nation they were founding. This was done by codifying what the government can not do to it's citizens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Written law is binding.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
There are no unwritten laws, only opinions that change with the wind.
Go into court, which beyond armed revolt, is the ONLY thing we have to have items legally changed, and tell than that you are going to use unwritten laws.
They will, before they throw your case out, or you in jail, tell you there are no unwritten laws, or rights. If it ain't on paper, it ain't ****.
In my area, law enforcement officials once were allowed to use discretion if and how to apply laws, if one broke a law it only mattered if the legal forces one was dealing with decided to enforce the law, or simply use his opinion of what should be done.
Some times the legal authority at hand invented his new law to deal with matters. That was actually illegal if taken to court but the offender being dealth with prefered the law of the moment to going to court.
All got along well, and people were rarely hand-cuffed and hauled off, even after violent fisticuffs.
Nowadays the law of the land, as written down is near ALWAYS used, as it is THE LAW and has LEGAL AUTHORITY to back it up.
If one wishes to challenge it one must use other WRITTEN LAWS to prove their interpretation was wrong.
Philosophical feely goods beliefs ain't worth ****.
What are you on about, written laws change all the time, they are barely worth the paper they are written on. Remember it wasn't that long ago that people in the US could own another human being. How can you put so much faith in the law as written, when it so clearly is flawed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Basic human rights, the point of this discussion, are constant. You have the right to Life, Liberty, and Property. Any written law that violates those rights is morally wrong, and should be resisted.
Why is it so hard for you to grasp the point that laws are changable, and lots of times those changes are not in your favor. Remember, pretty much everything the Nazi's did was perfectly legal within their laws (yeah sorry, it went there). Does that make what they did right, or moral? Nope, just "legal". Don't think that situation can not happen in the US, it can very easily since we have allowed our government to stray so far from the republican pricipals that this country was founded upon. But that's just a bunch of philosophical junk according to you.
Good Lord man, lawyer would chew you up for break-fast and crap you out by lunch time.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Whether you like the laws or not, the WRITTEN laws have the backing of the legal system of the land, period.
Laws change, thank God, but until they do, if you disobey them you are a criminal. Do so is up to the individual and if a Christian, whether the one can stand before God and say-- "I did what I believed was proper."
Here is what the book you supposedly are using for you empty rhetoric says about authority.
Romans 13:1-7 states, ----“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.--- The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right,--- but for those who do wrong. ---Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”
Here is where the law of life and death and the covenant covering it, for man AND beast is written:
Genesis 9
1 So God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth.[a] 2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand. 3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.
4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.
5 Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; ---from the hand of every beast I will require it,-- and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man’s brother I will require the life of man.
6 “ Whoever sheds man’s blood,
By man his blood shall be shed;
For in the image of God
He made man.
7 And as for you, be fruitful and multiply;
Bring forth abundantly in the earth
And multiply in it.”
8 Then God spoke to Noah and to his sons with him, saying: 9 “And as for Me, behold, I establish My covenant with you and with your descendants after you, 10 and with every living creature that is with you: the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you, of all that go out of the ark, every beast of the earth.
11 Thus I establish My covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.
You will notice that God's law and covenant is not only with man, but also all creatures of the Earth.
Oh yes, I obey laws by my standards.
I do not find the Ten Commandments to be optional, but there are a lot of laws, that to me, are bs and treated as such.