Hamilton: Maybe it's because I'm black

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

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Hamilton has been personally targeted in the past. If you can give me a good reason other than race why that would be the case then I shall accept that but other than that he clearly has been targeted. Race is the only obvious reason that I can think of; can you think of any other ones?

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I gave you one - he drives for McLaren and in 2008 they were clearly getting the short end of the straw following the 07 incidents - and so ur basic premise is that there is no evidence it is race but clearly it must be race?? And if you think the targetting of Hamilton by the stewards for lying in Australia 09 was race related??

As for Maldonado it was a dive-bomb plain and simple - watch the replay, there was no way he was able to stop since he basically went right up the inside expecting Maldonado to yield position without a fight. Penalty has been in F1 for YRS and will continue to be

I don't see any problem with Hamilton's comments - they were clearly intended as a joke. Its good to see some drivers with a bit of personaility. As for the penalties, I thought the first one was a bit harsh. Yes, it probably was Hamilton's fault but for me not bad enough to warrant a penalty. If such a minor transgression attracts a penalty then it will surely make drivers more cautious and diminish the racing.

Anyway, my 2 cents on this matter. The Massa incident was Lewis' fault, but so was Massa to blame for turning in too soon. He could have given him room, both cars would have made it through, and Massa would still be ahead before the tunnel.

Maldonado should have used his rear view mirrors better. Yes, Lewis was ambitious, but all overtaking moves are ambitious. If MS hadn't used his mirrors when Lewis overtook him, it would have been a similar disaster. I don't understand the second penalty. It's not like Lewis deliberately took out a championship rival. He had nothing to gain from causing a collision. It was a simple racing incident. Penalty undeserved.

That's all.

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Originally Posted by X-ecutioner

Penalty undeserved.

That's all.

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Lucky for F1 and the rest of us who want to see clean racing you don't get to make that decision.

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Originally Posted by Tumbo

I gave you one - he drives for McLaren and in 2008 they were clearly getting the short end of the straw following the 07 incidents - and so ur basic premise is that there is no evidence it is race but clearly it must be race?? And if you think the targetting of Hamilton by the stewards for lying in Australia 09 was race related??

As for Maldonado it was a dive-bomb plain and simple - watch the replay, there was no way he was able to stop since he basically went right up the inside expecting Maldonado to yield position without a fight. Penalty has been in F1 for YRS and will continue to be

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The first paragraph of that post is very badly written. I find it hard to get your point.

Regards the Maldonado incident, Lewis clearly had gone down the inside like he did with Schumacher. Schumacher had the sense to move out of the way. Maldonado, a little less experienced, chose to turn in early. Take the turn in point of the car in front, place some marker on your screen to mark the proper racing line and then look at Maldonado's turning point and you'll see what I mean. If you can't see it after that then go to specsavers.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

...go to specsavers.

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Is that where they sell Lewis tinted glasses?

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Originally Posted by Cooper_S

Is that where they sell Lewis tinted glasses?

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I have 20/20 vision, don't need them :D

Ok i'll spell it out my point more simply:

2007 McLaren were caught up in a little incident which became known as Stepneygate and resulted in the team being dumped from the constructors championship (surely you must remember this). In 2008 there were a number of incidents involving Lewis and penalties which were deemed at the time to be quite harsh and as though he had a target on his back for stewards - at this time quite a few of us were making rumblings about unfair targeting of lewis but it is clear that race was NEVER an issue here. Following on from this we saw lewis brought up for things like lying to the stewards among other offenses; some like the previous were incredibly serious and had ppl baying for blood but on the whole he didn't seem to be anymore a target for steward investigations than other drivers who fought hard on the racetrack.

Fast forward to this wkend and we have lewis claiming racial motivation as the reason the STEWARDS have been calling him into the office on a regular basis. This is a serious accusation and not one to be made lightly in any forum; now where is the evidence this has been racially motivated cause on the facts there is none. There is nothing that could be used to even say circumstantially this has been the case yet the argument seems to be Black Knight that with no evidence it must still be racism underlying lewis being penalised for poor judgment and skirting the laws of F1 rather than anything else because there is nothing to prove that it isn't racism - this is known as the bootstraps argument and has about as much strength as lewis' claim that there is racism against him in the steward's office.

Now it is clear - as a photo shown earlier proves - that there have been attacks on him by followers of the sports based on race; now unless one of those clown's shown was a steward (and they don't seem to resemble Charlie Whiting or any former driver or the like to me but i'm happy to be proven wrong) then they are acting as individuals. A spray like this one from lewis is completely uncalled for; and he would have apologised also because of the risk of a private action for defamation.

Hopefully this is more clear :)

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Originally Posted by X-ecutioner

Anyway, my 2 cents on this matter. The Massa incident was Lewis' fault, but so was Massa to blame for turning in too soon. He could have given him room

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Why should the driver give room to Lewy? Because he is "racey"?

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Originally Posted by Tumbo

Ok i'll spell it out my point more simply:

2007 McLaren were caught up in a little incident which became known as Stepneygate and resulted in the team being dumped from the constructors championship (surely you must remember this). In 2008 there were a number of incidents involving Lewis and penalties which were deemed at the time to be quite harsh and as though he had a target on his back for stewards - at this time quite a few of us were making rumblings about unfair targeting of lewis but it is clear that race was NEVER an issue here. Following on from this we saw lewis brought up for things like lying to the stewards among other offenses; some like the previous were incredibly serious and had ppl baying for blood but on the whole he didn't seem to be anymore a target for steward investigations than other drivers who fought hard on the racetrack.

Fast forward to this wkend and we have lewis claiming racial motivation as the reason the STEWARDS have been calling him into the office on a regular basis. This is a serious accusation and not one to be made lightly in any forum; now where is the evidence this has been racially motivated cause on the facts there is none. There is nothing that could be used to even say circumstantially this has been the case yet the argument seems to be Black Knight that with no evidence it must still be racism underlying lewis being penalised for poor judgment and skirting the laws of F1 rather than anything else because there is nothing to prove that it isn't racism - this is known as the bootstraps argument and has about as much strength as lewis' claim that there is racism against him in the steward's office.

Now it is clear - as a photo shown earlier proves - that there have been attacks on him by followers of the sports based on race; now unless one of those clown's shown was a steward (and they don't seem to resemble Charlie Whiting or any former driver or the like to me but i'm happy to be proven wrong) then they are acting as individuals. A spray like this one from lewis is completely uncalled for; and he would have apologised also because of the risk of a private action for defamation.

Hopefully this is more clear :)

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Yes, I am well aware of the Stephneygate and now I get what you’re saying. Honestly, I have always had a suspicion of racism against Lewis. If the FIA for some reason chose to give Lewis harsher penalties due to the Stephneygate then they should have given McLaren a more suitable penalty. A penalty is punishment enough for the team, if the FIA don’t believe the penalty strong enough then they can impose a stronger penalty or further sanctions at the time but to take it out on a new driver on the grid is wrong. Either way, the FIA are at fault here. If they were going to hold a grudge then they should have cleared that grudge with a stronger penalty for the Stephneygate. Again, I’m not convinced that it was the Stephneygate alone but I agree any evidence of racism isn’t well founded and would be very hard to prove but I'm not convinced that racism doesn't play some role and clearly neither is Lewis.

However, lets keep an open eye on it ;)