yes ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
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yes ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
RedBull already support VAG in rallying through Škoda in SWRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9
Planetemarcus (great site by the way) : Loeb will earn 10m euro / year and Hirvonen 3m euro / year.
I am really curious to know how much Elena gets???
Because he is neighbour with loeb in switzerland and trust me, this place is not cheap! (shumacher is a neighbour as well...)
Dont know what kind of agreement Loeb/Elena has, but in some cases its the driver who pays the codriver.Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderem
By the way, where does Loeb and elena live?
VW Fabias have also been carrying "wings for life" logos which is a Red Bull charity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
It's usually so that a driver has contract with team and co-driver is working for the driver. When a driver pays his co-driver's salary a common deal is about 10-30 percent of driver's salary. Higher salary in general meaning lower percentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koppomsbo
Don't forget that Elena also has his own company All Sports Management.
They live in switzerland next to Morges in a small village. If you read his autobiography i think it's written... Can't remember now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koppomsbo
So if elena gets 30% of loeb's wages, that means he earns as much as Hirvonen? lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by vkangas
I think Elena is underpaid if its between 10% and 30%!
that's between 1 million and 3 million! That's not underpaid. In fighting it's the same trainer gets 30 % but mostly if they get at the top and they 300k bucks a fight or even more then it gets a bit lesser.
near Lusanne, Switzerland according to:Quote:
Originally Posted by Koppomsbo
Site officiel de Sébastien Loeb - Sébastien
mousti,
but in boxing the trainer doesn't have to do a few rounds taking the odd jab if his boxer fails to defend, in rallying if Seb throws it into the scenary then he's throwing Daniel too! I think he deserves his percentage !
I don't say he deserves it but 3 million is too less?? A trainer makes the fighter, do you think that GSP would be the champion without his trainer? A trainer in fighting is a lot worth, they take punches too in sparring.
Why are you discusing 3 mil`s or % if you don`t know how much Elena is earning, these are just speculation.
since when co-drivers are trainers ????
It's a comparison both are kinda the right hand of the peformer
LOL....Quote:
Originally Posted by mousti
the co-driver is about the 10-20% of the speed....nothing more.
Loeb would be more likely to be WRC champ without Elena that the other way round, I have huge respect for codrivers, but when Petter Solberg changed codrivers it didnt slow him on the stagesQuote:
Originally Posted by 6789
LOL x 1000, I haven't laughed this hard in months! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
He has a point though, but there's one condition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juha_Koo
When a driver goes "by ears" (virtually by his co-driver's reading notes), he needs to completely trust him, and thus the co-driver's contribution is very high (at least 50% of total driver-co-driver crew work). You know the saying: when the driver makes a mistake, the crew loses seconds, when the co-driver makes a mistake, the crew loses minutes and hours.
BUT When a driver knows that the co-driver is bad / the intercom is broken / smth happened, he needs to drive "by eyes", and in that case the difference is, as NOT said, 10-20%, sometimes even less. A good example of that - Gronholm's stage victories in Finland after back problems for Timo.
many people cry because they suffer from the co-driver cry-baby syndrome...for example mr Nicky Grist and others...
the fact is a good co-driver is far easier to find than a good driver, and a good driver can progress even with a bad co-driver not the other way around.
you can cry or laugh all you want but facts are facts...sorry.
Give us some examples,please.....Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
there are various examples of drivers changing co-drivers and the speed remains the same....Kannkunen,makinen,galli,sainz and numerous more...ects
In other words the co-driver must be really bad to show any impact on the drivers speed....no driver can win a rally without a co-driver but as i said its very very easy to find a good co-driver.
duval and novikov are also good examples since changing of co-drivers didn't change much...so its the driver that makes the difference not the co-driver.
In case of Novikov it's a bit different. He's performed together with best Russian co-drivers, one of the best Asia-Pacific co-drivers and two of the best co-drivers in the world, but every time he's made a mistake he blamed his co-driver!! So where's he now? Ah, yeah, still there, down the results' table...))Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
He paid so much for thin results.
Even with a good or bad co driver Novikov has same pace/exits.That told you NOTQuote:
Originally Posted by White Sauron
Lol, wrong again....Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
To set competitive stage times(on gravel) the drivers set their cars up for corners that they havent even seen yet....How much confidence would a driver have to do this with no co-driver? Not a lot.
On tarmac, they need to know distances(amongst others) etc to find optimal braking points, turning in points, how long the corner is so they know when they can exit at full speed...Once again, how much would a driver commit to a corner that he cant see without a co-driver reading notes?
Circuit racing drivers dont need this, they practice the track so many times they know where all of the correct braking points are, exit speeds etc etc. Unfortunately, in rallying you do not get that privilage.
Totally dependable from the rally and conditions. In Jordan, night stages, foggy conditions, etc. time losses would be bigger than 10-20%.Quote:
Originally Posted by White Sauron
Marcus' fastest time in Vellipohja was because of rigorous video playback of the stage, it was the only new stage in NORF 2005 and Marcus and Timo had watched it from the video dozens of times. Also the codriver's role outside stages shouldn't be forgotten. Maybe you can tell me N.O.T why there's a problematic shortage of codrivers in Finland if the reality is how you say it is... Good codriver is essential for good results, it isn't coincedence that the same guys seem to have many jobs (=drivers).
Changing the co-driver doesn't mean anything to what is co-driver role's input to the speed of rally crews.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I agree with N.O.T. on this one, sometimes a change of co-driver gives the driver new motivation and its in that way good.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
In general I think that in the beginning of drivers carreer its good if they can put someone experiensed co-driver, the same way like when Harjanne was with Tommi in early days.
When J-M started his carreer in UK, Pentti once asked who I would put sitting with him, after a short thinking, I said Jakke Honkanen, the only reason was that he was good, experiensed and that he has the drivers respect too.
i do not expect much from you...but i will replyQuote:
Originally Posted by tfp
THE DRIVER MAKES THE NOTES NOT THE CO DRIVER...THE DRIVER TRUSTS HIS NOTES THAT THE CO DRIVER JUST READS....
maybe my english are deteriorating as time passes and i cannot express myself properly, because the assumptions you make out of the things i post are astonishing.....
what i am saying in simple words is that...
The co-driver doesn't make a lot of difference in a drivers speed and results...he is easily replaceable thus the payroll is so little....
Can you name a good driver who got lost due to a bad co-driver ?? or a bad driver who improved because of a co-driver ???
if you have problems understanding what i am saying there are very few things that can be done....
dont know much about NOT and your indept rally knowlodge or your experience of competing in rallys or not but all i know is that your putting together a poor point ,all i know from my own expereince in both sides of the car a good codriver does matter,and i could be all night listing off cases of this.
:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Yes...I know!
Ok, so co-drivers may be relatively easily replaced, (when Phil mills quit, how many co drivers will have been lining up to drive alongside Petter?) at top level. The point I'm trying to make is that they are far more important than what you think. I'm pretty sure there would be a lot more accidents without co drivers!
A good co-driver is far more than just a note reader. A good co-driver is a manager, a steading influence, a motivator. Someone who keeps you on the pace but also in-check when necessary. They are a coach, trainer, mentor.
They also ought be proficient in all aspects of the rules and an effective communicator.
All this and deliver the notes precisely and exactly on cue.
A good co-driver can both win you and lose you the event. A mediocre co-driver can only lose it for you.
Don't underestimate the value of a top co-driver.
I seem to recall that when Luis Moya threw in the towel he commented that his share of Sainz's reduced 500K (Euro) retainer was 150K which was not sufficient to justify risking his neck and spending 10 months away from home, family etc..., a sentiment I would agree with. This would confirm the 30% theory for the top guys.
NOT how many co-drvers have you had?
i do not underestimate them...i just say that a good co-driver is far easier to find than a good driver and also that his contribution to the speed of the driver is around 20%...thus the difference in salaries.Quote:
Originally Posted by sollitt
Use your head (not pointing towards you just a general remark) we live in a world driven by money...if the co-drivers contributed more than this 20% i am sure they would get paid more, they just get what they deserve...
1.276Quote:
Originally Posted by TyPat107