The Ferrari thread !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bagwan

So , you must actually think that , because team orders are banned , they are never used ?

---

Oh they're used alright except they blatantly made comments that both drivers were equal when we all knew it was a lie. Fred came to the team with the understanding that HE WAS NUMERO UNO. And yet Ferrari continued the farce that both drivers were equal to win the title. That was not the intent Fred signed with Ferrari. All parties knew he was always #1.

So if that's the case, just man up and tell Felipe we don't think you're good enough to win the title for Ferrari and we know Fred is faster and a much better driver than you. Nope they kept the chirade going that both drivers were equal until Fred nearly ran Massa off the road trying to get into the pits first. First clue Fred was #1 because they excused his actions.

If you are going to use team orders then call a spade a spade and say Fred you're the better driver and Felipe you're not as good, sorry but you're good enough to be a team player. All F1 fans knew that was going to be the case when we saw how Fred behaved when Lewis gave Fred all he could handle and more.

If this was openly said I would have zero problems with what happened in Germany. That's the way Flavio runs his teams, Ferrari insisted it runs it's team with equal status.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bagwan

Firstly , shifter , had Smedley and Massa done as directed , nobody would have known specifically that it had been done .
The engine performance level changes came after two reminders that Alonso was faster .

As to my restaurant employee , there was no violation of food handling regs .
They simply didn't want to do the job I asked of them .
It's not difficult to understand that I didn't want to pay someone to not do the job , when others are happy to take thier turn , is it ?

Lots of others would drive that car , if he decides he doesn't want to drive for the team .

---

You didn't answer my question. If you directed an employee to violate a code or law should they perform that task or refuse to perform it? This is what Ferrari did to Rob and Felipe.

As for your employee, I was simply using your restaurant as an example, not questioning your actions in any way. No offense intended.


I'm sure there are other drivers willing to be #2 drivers and ignore the rules of F1 for a Ferrari paycheck. But there are just as probably teams that would have picked up Felipe had he chose to flip them off when passing the pit wall, and driven the car to a win against the "faster" Alonso.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by airshifter

You didn't answer my question. If you directed an employee to violate a code or law should they perform that task or refuse to perform it? This is what Ferrari did to Rob and Felipe.

As for your employee, I was simply using your restaurant as an example, not questioning your actions in any way. No offense intended.


I'm sure there are other drivers willing to be #2 drivers and ignore the rules of F1 for a Ferrari paycheck. But there are just as probably teams that would have picked up Felipe had he chose to flip them off when passing the pit wall, and driven the car to a win against the "faster" Alonso.

---

Hey just a point?? They cheated for how many years??? All the ones the Chin was there. Everybody violated the code. So are we throwing Ferrari out of F1 - Hell no - Ferrari is the anchor of F1 Who would you rather have run Ferrari - Penske or Flavio - just what I thought and we don't need a poll for this question :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roamy

Hey just a point?? They cheated for how many years??? All the ones the Chin was there. Everybody violated the code. So are we throwing Ferrari out of F1 - Hell no - Ferrari is the anchor of F1 Who would you rather have run Ferrari - Penske or Flavio - just what I thought and we don't need a poll for this question :)

---

They didn't cheat up to Austria 2002, are you ever going to understand what goes on around you, or your hatred does blind you completely.

I like how you keep asking and answering your self-righteous questions, this does prove many things. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

Baggy, that directive is ILLEGAL under the present sporting regulations.

And that's not everything. In order to make it even worse Massa was ordered to run less revs while Alonso was on full revs.

What Ferrari did in the German GP is not defensible as legal under the current regulations.

Remember 2007? and what Alonso did to his team that year? He went to the FIA and claimed the team are disadvantaging him and he was assigned a FIA commissary to check that he got equal opportunities to his team mate. In Germany he was whining on the radio for the team to use team orders when he already had a car advantage handed to him. He's the biggest prick in F1 and Ferrari F1 became his whore, which makes it quite obvious why people stopped supporting them.

---

So for all the years when Ferrari focused and helped your beloved M. Schumacher and penalised poor R. Barrichello it was ok...now that Ferrari are doing the same choosing Alonso as 1st driver and asking/ordering Massa to help him, it's not ok any more ? :confused: :rolleyes:

The double moral I am reading in this thread disguistes me :down:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pino

So for all the years when Ferrari focused and helped your beloved M. Schumacher and penalised poor R. Barrichello it was ok...now that Ferrari are doing the same choosing Alonso as 1st driver and asking/ordering Massa to help him, it's not ok any more ? :confused: :rolleyes:

The double moral I am reading in this thread disguistes me :down:

---

The big difference, though, is that team orders never used to be illegal. Ferrari chose to make Schumacher their number one, drivers like Irvine and Barrichello knew the score in advance. Now Massa, bless him, beleives he has equality when it's plain for the world to see that he does not.

I was no fan when McLaren used them to help Hakkinen at the expense of Coulthard, but at least it was allowable under the rules.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

Baggy, I get the strategy, however I hate the whining of men.

---

Then , why do you like Massa ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by airshifter

You didn't answer my question. If you directed an employee to violate a code or law should they perform that task or refuse to perform it? This is what Ferrari did to Rob and Felipe.

As for your employee, I was simply using your restaurant as an example, not questioning your actions in any way. No offense intended.


I'm sure there are other drivers willing to be #2 drivers and ignore the rules of F1 for a Ferrari paycheck. But there are just as probably teams that would have picked up Felipe had he chose to flip them off when passing the pit wall, and driven the car to a win against the "faster" Alonso.

---

Had they done exactly as suggested , they would not have been breaking any rule .
The words were as directed , but delivered in a way that brought suspicion .

Such is the stupidity of the rule .
They never said "move over and let him pass" .

Of course I wouldn't think of asking an employee to break the law , but this was an example of two employees that did when directed to do otherwise .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bagwan

Had they done exactly as suggested , they would not have been breaking any rule .
The words were as directed , but delivered in a way that brought suspicion .

Such is the stupidity of the rule .
They never said "move over and let him pass" .

Of course I wouldn't think of asking an employee to break the law , but this was an example of two employees that did when directed to do otherwise .

---

I don't think they were directed to do otherwise. It was clear what they were directed to do without a specific order.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave B

The big difference, though, is that team orders never used to be illegal. Ferrari chose to make Schumacher their number one, drivers like Irvine and Barrichello knew the score in advance. Now Massa, bless him, beleives he has equality when it's plain for the world to see that he does not.

I was no fan when McLaren used them to help Hakkinen at the expense of Coulthard, but at least it was allowable under the rules.

---

The silly part , though , Dave , is that it is still alowable under the rules if it is done correctly .
Only when rogue employees do the "poor me" dance does it get penalized .