Vodafone Rally de Portugal 2012

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Originally Posted by uranium

Just curious, all cars goes through so deep check procedure?

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Of course not. That is impossible. I think top three overall, winner of supporter championship and possibly some else which can be chosen by stewards.

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Originally Posted by uranium

And return to what I said earlier. Agree, to check more than 50 cars is impossible. But at least there are no more than 10 cars, who can be called as pretenders for victory. Why not check all of them before the event? At least 4 cars are the most important?

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No :) First imagine You spent hours of testing tuning Your engine and than just before start of the event they disassemble it. I would be furious if someone did it to me and I had to build the engine again just few hours before start! That's nothing less than a sabotage. How would You justify to do so and especially only to someone?

Moreover not many things which were in the car on start are in it at the end and even if You check ten cars You would need an extra day for that.

Mirek, you are right. Nothing to say :)

Really nice video from RallyMedia - WRC Rally de Portugal 2012 (HD) - YouTube

Some big cutting at 0:15 by Ford factory car, looks like Petter I think - WRC Rally de Portugal 2012 (HD) - YouTube

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Originally Posted by tommeke_B

The clutch was heavier than normal. Which means it could be more durable/reliable, so better... It's the right thing they excluded Hirvonen, fair is fair. FIA can't tolerate any cheating...

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Agree. You don't change something unless there's a reason for it. Reliability may be the issue here. This is a BIG mistake from engineering department and highly unusual for Citroën. Knowing the French really well I wouldn't be surprised if heads fall for this.

The turbo issue is what tickles my pickle though.
According to Citroën's chief engineer they knew about this and had already discussed this problem with FIA. My question is:

If Citroën have been competing in WRC since 10 years with turbocharged cars and their turbos have supposedly been checked dozens and dozens of times by scrutineers over the years, why is it that suddenly, at Rallye de Portugal 2012, a scrutineer measures the impeller and finds it to be over sized beyond the tolerance ?? Has it now become so difficult for them to win that they need to push the limits even more? Has there been some restructuring in the team following the new boss's arrival and mistakes start happening?
I am waiting for the lab to confirm if that impeller is over sized or not.

Having this issue with turbo since many years, may have tempted them to push the limit (e.g. impeller dia) some hundreds of a millimeter, under the umbrella of the known problems... hoping to be innocent when discovered...

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Originally Posted by 6789

Really nice video from RallyMedia - WRC Rally de Portugal 2012 (HD) - YouTube

Some big cutting at 0:15 by Ford factory car, looks like Petter I think - WRC Rally de Portugal 2012 (HD) - YouTube

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It was Solberg indeed. Latvala is the last shot, also quite big cutting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVpum9hv8S4

My photos are online too!
Difficult rally als normal spectators, but we were able to get out of some spectator zones fortunately!

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2012...ttiyah%202.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2012...andell%203.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2012...olberg%204.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2012.../Ogier%201.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2012...uville%202.jpg

More at --> CLICK or at our Facebook page !

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Originally Posted by Antony Warmbold

The turbo issue is what tickles my pickle though.
According to Citroën's chief engineer they knew about this and had already discussed this problem with FIA. My question is:

If Citroën have been competing in WRC since 10 years with turbocharged cars and their turbos have supposedly been checked dozens and dozens of times by scrutineers over the years, why is it that suddenly, at Rallye de Portugal 2012, a scrutineer measures the impeller and finds it to be over sized beyond the tolerance ?? Has it now become so difficult for them to win that they need to push the limits even more? Has there been some restructuring in the team following the new boss's arrival and mistakes start happening?
I am waiting for the lab to confirm if that impeller is over sized or not.

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I don't know what to think about that. I admit I'm no expert in this area so I just "think loud". In all previous cars they had turbos designed specially for their cars but now the turbo is same for all WRC cars (if I'm not mistaken). I can hardly believe they changed turbine of a controlled turbocharger which was supplied complete by Garret. How and why would they prolong fins by something like 0,1 mm? I think that they would need to produce new turbine to achieve that. But than there is higher risk of failure if the turbine fins get so close to the housing that they can clash with it. So they changed also housing? Maybe yes but than there is a controlled waste-gate (I believe it's how they keep maximum allowed pressure) so they can't achieve higher pressure anyway. Larger turbine have more inertia so it has slower reactions. From my uneducated point of view I can't see a reason to cheat by making turbine 0,1 mm larger. I tend to believe it really can be caused by high-temperature creep and therefore be more a defect of the turbocharger than a cheat.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

I don't know what to think about that. I admit I'm no expert in this area so I just "think loud". In all previous cars they had turbos designed specially for their cars but now the turbo is same for all WRC cars (if I'm not mistaken). I can hardly believe they changed turbine of a controlled turbocharger which was supplied complete by Garret. How and why would they prolong fins by something like 0,1 mm? I think that they would need to produce new turbine to achieve that. But than there is higher risk of failure if the turbine fins get so close to the housing that they can clash with it. So they changed also housing? Maybe yes but than there is a controlled waste-gate (I believe it's how they keep maximum allowed pressure) so they can't achieve higher pressure anyway. Larger turbine have more inertia so it has slower reactions. From my uneducated point of view I can't see a reason to cheat by making turbine 0,1 mm larger. I tend to believe it really can be caused by high-temperature creep and therefore be more a defect of the turbocharger than a cheat.

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I share your point of view now. It is more likely what you say rather than "pushing the limits". We are not in the Toyota days anymore.

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Originally Posted by Antony Warmbold

I share your point of view now. It is more likely what you say rather than "pushing the limits". We are not in the Toyota days anymore.

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@Mirek & Warmbold,

Thanks you for info. That was very educational. It will be interesting to see what Citroën will say at the FIA hearing.