Im fairly sure he is being sarcastic, but then are you also...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
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Im fairly sure he is being sarcastic, but then are you also...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
I was just thinking the same, N.O.T showing his usual lack of experience at rallying. A co-driver is more important than your wife/husband when rallying, they are the one that keeps you alive in many ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Of course co-driver is important but i suggest NOT means that a top driver can win no matter who is the co-driver, also a slow driver will be always slow no matter who is sitting next to him.Also EVEN management thinks the same with NOT when it hires such an INEXPERIENCED co-driver for Andreas.So dont blame NOT,blame EVEN management.
i was not referring to the work the co-driver does, but to the name... no matter who co-drives the speed is going to be the same if he is a professional.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkvy
Loeb has won rallies with his wife as a co-driver.
Some of the essential elements of a successful driver/co-driver pair is a good relationship between the two, on and off the stages. It requires a strong bond between the two as well as complete and utter blind trust in your co-driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I don't think I'm wrong in my assumption that the relationship between Loeb and his wife would fit the bill regarding the description above, so to me it's no surprise that Loeb has won rallies with his wife as a co-driver.
Had he chosen a stranger (with the same co-driving skills or lack of such compared to his wife) it would certainly be up for discussion as to whether he would still have won those events or not. A good co-driver can give you an extra 5% when you need a boost the most.
I think that the saying goes like this: a co-driver won't win the event for you but he can lose it for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyace
The mental state of the driver is very much dependant on his co-driver. They're together around 3/4 of the year. A co-driver will need to pick his driver up when he's down, cool him down when he's up and generally be a voice of reason in tough situations (for instance John Kennard's comments to Hayden when he encountered problems in Sardinia or Miikka Anttilla's peptalk to Jari-Matti before the power stage in Portugal).Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
So despite the saying might be like you mentioned it, I would consider it too simplistic and erroneous of a view to see the role of the co-driver as the person who might lose you the event. A co-driver is of utmost importance to a driver and his role shouldn't be underestimated.
The codriver is for sure essential for the driver. It´s really simplifying his role saying any topdriver would win no matter who´s codriving.
And mark my words - codriving in WRC is much harder than codriving in village events in slower cars. Going up to highest level isn´t every man is doing just like that.
Of course..... but i can name 50 people who could win rallies with Ogier next to them but only maybe 2-3 who could win with Ingrassia next to themQuote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
http://beta.autosport.com/news/repor...meeke-deadline
about Meeke, Citroen and Toyota.
If there will be Ogier on start, there is actually only one driver, who can win with Ingrassia...Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Matton didn't have any problem talking to Meeke via the media when he was criticising him..Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Translation: "Kris is old, our car will be good in 2017, Toyota's maybe not"
I suppose that means Citroen offer Kris two years and Toyota three.
may be more like 1 and a halfQuote:
Originally Posted by RS
Jezzarallyblog: Meekanen
What a sweet irony it is that Kris Meeke, the Brit who for so long couldn’t buy a WRC drive now has two of the biggest outfits fighting over him.
Knowing Kris I doubt he’ll waste much time on such thoughts. All his faculties will be focused on which of Toyota and Citroen he can screw the best chance out of to be world champion.
Later in life, though, when he’s reflecting on it all he’ll probably spare a moment of wonder at how fast the wheel of fortune suddenly turns.
It was only a few years ago that he insisted he wasn’t about to waste his talent on one-off drives. He believed he was good enough to be in the WRC as of right. It takes iron-hard strength of mind to maintain that stance when no-one is knocking on your door.
So far his career has been all fits and starts, with more fits than starts. He was faster than Dani Sordo in the JWRC, but the more consistent Spaniard got the gig with the full (Kronos-run) Citroen team in 2006.
Then he was IRC champion in 2009. At the Autosport show before that season kicked off he told me: “I’d rather be in the IRC with Peugeot than a second-string world rally car.” But it was a victory that didn’t springboard him upwards. Then he became collateral damage in the war between Prodrive and BMW after his one year with Mini.
Now, two years at Citroen have finally shown team bosses what many of us have long thought: He can be the real deal at WRC level. As the one man who regularly mixes it with the VW Polo drivers his stock has suddenly taken off like a Eurofighter on afterburners.
But nothing comes that easy for the Ulsterman. No doubt he’d most like to be signing with VW for 2016 and it’s well known that team boss Jost Capito is an admirer. However, all seats there are booked until 2017 and at 35 Meeke can’t afford a year off: same goes at Hyundai, while M-Sport also has its drivers locked in.
All of which leaves him with a hell of a dilemma – albeit one that many would kill for. Citroen and Toyota have both realised with a start that they are short of a top-liner with no-one else available. So does Meeke stick with the French or stick his neck out and go the Japanese/Finnish route?
Toyota has the might of the world’s biggest motor corporation behind it. But it is solely fuelled by the personal enthusiasm of its president Akio Toyoda. Presidents can come and go – even those called Toyoda.
The team is also starting from scratch and some would ask whether they have a top-level designer on tap. Personally I’m still to be convinced everything is on cue. There’s been just too much fog and confusion so far.
What’s more it looks like Meeke would have to take a full year out of front-line competition. Most factory drivers today say margins are now so tight that a year off loses you that vital edge.
At Citroen it looks likely that he will get some outings in competition next year. Yves Matton has said this would be with a private team but you can bet the Chevron outfit’s big-hitters would keep a close eye on matters!
Citroen last won both WRC titles in 2012; Toyota way back in 1994. So the French and their engineers are bound to be more familiar with all the wrinkles, short cuts and no-nos of modern WRC cars. Can Tommi Makinen bring a fresh approach and build enough esprit de corps to offset that?
Without wanting to hammer on about Meeke’s age, he can’t afford to get his choice wrong. It’s his one chance of a shot at that world title.
For me, the tried and tested looks best -- provided they put an unbreakable three-year contract on the table.
Better the Frogs you know, than the team you don’t, I say. But then, I’m just a scribbler, not a world championship contender!
http://jezzarallyblog.blogspot.co.uk/
For sure it's great to see Meeke being able to secure a WRC seat in the long terme, but honestly it's hard to believe that Citro or Toy will be Meeke's WRC winning ticket.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
From his previous experience with Matton and because of Makinen's predominant profile, there're little chances to see Meeke having the "key figure status" that enabled Loeb and Ogier to lead Citroen and VW squads and become the dominant forces of WRC...
Btw, if the issue around Toyota WRC effort was Toyoda permanence as CEO, we all could be rested...the Toyoda clan is one the most important shareholders and Akio was raised to be the company leader for a long time!
Toyota would be a gamble for Meeke imo.
Citroen's contract could be shorter but if he performs well Citroen would extend it eventually. Citroen is not participating to 2016 in order to build a very strong car for 2017/2019. Toyota is more uncertain.
I just would ask them a bit more friendly approach and to avoid overcriticism like this year.
I'd go with Citroen, lock in 6 rounds in WRC this year, develop the 2017 car but have a contract for 3 years
I dont agree with this sentence. Winning in IRC was springboard for him to go back to WRC. Without success in IRC, he will not receive offer from Prodrive...Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Without success in IRC (for PSA), I suspect he wouldn't have had the 208 T16 testing gig and the following invites from Citroen in 2013 either, it was probably the springboard to his subsequent WRC career.
If Citroen dont keep Meeke, who are they going to get in 2017 ?
With money everyone (except Mikkelsen)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
With or without Meeke, I can imagine they have Neuville on their radar, although Latvala would probably become a target too.
For 2017, there are a few young guns that I'm sure they'll have an eye on too: I wouldn't expect Tidemand to have a VW seat but I'd expect him to be in a WRC class, for example.
For 2016 development role, I'd expect Hirvonen and Solberg to have some demands for their time from either Toyota or Citroen.
Issue being that Meeke is available for 2016 and a testing programme, and I'm not sure who else out there stands out as someone capable of that.
Seems like the contract situation is:
Paddon (Hyundai 3 years up until end of 2018).
Mikkelsen (VW Unspecified multi-year - at least through to end of 2017)
Camilli (M-Sport 2 years up until end of 2017, M-Sport first option on him for 2018)
Lappi/Tidemand (Assumed multi-year VAG deals)
Everyone else is either a free agent (Meeke/Evans) or has their contract up at the end of 2016.
And after the analysis, how many cars we will see lined up at every WRC rally?
Too early to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by rayh_mx
Questions marks around:
Citroen/PH Sport
M-Sport (14 rounds not confirmed)
Kubica, Prokop, Breen, Al-Rajhi, second Dmack entry
I doubt any privateer will do all 14 rounds. So best case I'd say we get 9 full season entries.
we don't know how many cars will PH Sport prepare (if any)
at least they got the flags right :p
Petter Solberg calls on Kris Meeke to choose Toyota...
http://www.blackmorevale.co.uk/Pette...ail/story.html
Petter please be focused in the rallycross and leave Kris to do whatever he wants.
Kris Meeke should choose Toyota - and this is why:
I have put a lot of thought in this, because its not an easy decision, and there is lot of unknowns.
Citroën positives:
If Kris should go for short term results, Citroën would be the way to go. The 17-car will probably be one of the fastest, and I would be surprised if its not faster than the Toyota.
The team has great experience, so 2017 would be a real fight for victories for Kris.
Citroën negatives:
I feel that Citroën has never really committed to Kris. There has been some statements from the team, that must have been tough for Meeke to hear. All of them going in the direction of his place in the team being very unsure.
Even their arguments to seal Kris go in that direction. They point on his age, that he only has a couple of years left, etc. To me, that says that they see Kris as a short term solution, until they can build up younger French talent.
I am a bit surprised on how little Citroën knows about talents, and what to look for, having brought up both Loeb and Ogier.
They should now that age is not a factor.
They should know that an unexperienced driver with winning speed is easier to coach to be a champion, than an experienced driver with speed lacking.
I am a little surprised of how Citroën thinks that the car is more important than the driver. I am just puzzled.
Also, their "super-engineer" has left WRC for Formula E.
Summary: In Citroën Kris would be fighting for victories in 2017, but his future beyond 17-18 that would be uncertain. He would probably never feel total commitment from the team.
Toyota negatives:
New team, new car, unknown engineering capabilities, variable degree of experience.
New car could be a total dud (tough i doubt it).
Possibility of not driving much in 2016.
Toyota positives:
Tommi Mäkinen is one of the drivers in the world, if not THE driver in the world, with the clearest picture of what You need technically and driving wise to win the WRC. And he is a great teacher.
He also has some great visions regarding stuff like geometry (tough this could potentially lead to discussions with Kris, who is very technically gifted him self, if the ideas are to wild).
He could teach Kris "Nose End First" which is the last small adjustments Kris needs to his driving style before he is both fast AND safe.
Kris would get total commitment and trust.
I think Kris has a good 7-10 years left in the sport on top level, if he chooses to.
Summary: Toyota is a more uncertain option car and team wise, but would offer more long term commitment and a better base for driver development.
So what should he do about the driving:
The most important year Seb Ogier had when it comes to driving was in an S2000 car.
When You step "down" a class or two, and are motivated by trying to mix it with the bigger class, You really have to wring the cars neck.
Kris should do all the reccess.
And he should compete in several events in an R5 or similar, practising safe AND fast.
The events he will not compete in, he should be out on the stages, studying the lines of Ogier, and compare them with the other drivers, and his own pace notes from the recce.
For Ogier, taking a year sabbatical would be no problem. He would be just as fast, or faster, because You can really let the mind process all inputs over the last years, which You really have time to with a very busy race schedule.
For Meeke its a little bit different. He has to little experience on some of the rallies, for that to be as easy as it would have been for Ogier.
So:
- Go with Toyota
- Do all recces in 2016
- Compete in WRC events in an R5 or even in front wheel drive cars.
- Do a lot of testing with Mäkinen as a driver coach.
- Listen to Mäkinen!
Is there a possibility to go with Toyota and participate to WRC events with a private fiesta paid by Toyota?
I would think so. So a Fiesta R5 would be a possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
If I was in Toyoda's shoes, I would have put a new scope to the German Motorsport arm. Make a R5 of their existing Yaris project ASAP.
This was done by Ford, and has worked ok for them.
Why: Start building their database with the R5, and develop the WRCar, building it around Meeke.
Camilli is a good example?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
but their decision was Tommi will build R2 and R5 :(
I agree that maybe Germany should build that R5
meanwhile they can use "Oreca" Fabia R5
Great analysis (as always when it doesn't come to space frame cars hahahahaha)!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Sorry I meant in a Fiesta WRC, not an R5. Would it be possible? I'm not an expert but maybe staying in a WRC is better than go with an r5 in order too keep the speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Thats a very good idea. TMR/Gazoo could buy that service from TMG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Hehe, thanks. But don't forget that the coolest modern rally car competing anywhere in the world right now is a New Zealand space frame build �� and this actual car should be used as an object for study as to how wrc could reach some hefty price, performance and sensory targets ��Quote:
Originally Posted by itix