Unconfirmed report is that Tanak hit Sordo's car...
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Unconfirmed report is that Tanak hit Sordo's car...
you forget to write that Citroen build tailored cars to him,and about the secret nuclear suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
So much pain...
The pain is the same that avoided Loeb of changing team. Simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
If you push your cogitation farther. What would you have made if you were on his place??? You would choose to drive S2000 after so many title??Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
we cannot reproach Loeb for weakness of his opponent. :)
Weakness, haha. is that the reason Ogier to go to VW. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by René
EDIT: I'm quite sure Citroen are much happier with Hirvonen as 2nd driver.
If you push your cogitation farther. What would you have made if you were on his place??? You would choose to drive S2000 after so many title??Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
we cannot reproach Loeb for weakness of the opponents. :)
wow, interestingQuote:
Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1
Ogier begins his career Loeb ends it. Duel will take place in 2013 between 2 Seb, but it will not change the weak performances of other drivers... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
After proved almost all with so many titles, i would prove to myself that still was the best with other car.Quote:
Originally Posted by René
That's what he avoided to prove.
Of course it will be 2013. Meantime Loeb gets 2 more titles very easily (in terms of internal team competition). ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by René
Only reason Loeb is stil driving, is that team mates of him have to stay behind. (ford does a F***up annyway)Quote:
Originally Posted by René
During the last year I lost totally my respect for Loeb. He was not willing to compete with Ogier and he forced Citroën to release Ogier´s contract and go away from his team.
Now Loeb is very happy. He is able to win all the time and the WRC is the situation like never before...
:up: And now he claims 8-9-10 titles doesn't matter :D sure, he convinced me...Quote:
Originally Posted by rp
EDIT: WRC is not boring because he is the best, I know he is. But last year and this all victories must be granted to him. That is boring... :(
This it is the favourite legend to make of Loeb bashing. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by r199
It is not enough to diminish great performances of the best champion to make bigger the small performance of others. We must remain a little bit serious ;)
Karl Kruuda & Martin Järveoja crash Rally Germany 2012 - YouTube
Kruudas crash from yesterday
I agree on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by rp
the events with ogier make the statements of duval pretty credible to me. and if we know/suspect that both ogier and duval where not allowed to compete with loeb, it is doubtful sordo or hirvonen where free to do it.
yes, loeb is the best, i don't think anybody would disagree on that. but if he wouldn't have had the best car for most of the years, combined with a teammate who works only for him, he would not have 8 titles.
Damn. What that tree is doing there :DQuote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Boring rally. :P
Great result from Hirvonen and Latvala. If stars, moon, sun, others planets and rocks etc...are set right we will get tomorrow double podium to FINLAND. But let´s see.
I said something like that earlier... But I think that i didn't make me clear enough... Loeb don't win any rally because of the car. He win because he is an excellent driver. But now when Loeb is driven by Citroen so many years, they are in situation where 1+1 is more than 2. Loeb is so relaxed in car and he trust it so much that he don't have to do any magic tricks with the car. He don't have to push it over the limit for win. And if Ford drivers want to win, they have to push over the limits... Sometimes they succeed but most of the time they don't...Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
I'm glad we have QS now. Seems drivers are driving at full speed at gravel rallies :DQuote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
x2! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by rp
Hello,
some pictures of todays stages ar online at rally3.de
http://www.rally3.de/components/com_...1197649410.jpg
http://www.rally3.de/components/com_...1479282392.jpg
http://www.rally3.de/components/com_...2063372244.jpg
http://www.rally3.de/components/com_...2081975247.jpg
Karsten
Matthieu Arzeno 10th overall !!! Keep that work tomorrow Matthieu !!! :up:
@ Karsten last photo is the best, mmm :D
I wonder if the decisive thing is just that very thing about long term relationships and mutual respect...You're right, its totally absurd, insane even to zero in on and claim "The car is built just for Loeb".. Well who the hell is Ford building their car for? Ben Klock? Me?Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
I keep referencing this old long interview with Christian Loriaux in magazine Racecar Engineering right when he came aborad at Prodrive---and subsequently we know, right when Subaru began their sudden and drastic decline that led to them leaving WRC...
Now all the details of things are one thing, but the shocking and lasting impression of the article was his enormous ego, and how he said in many ways, and in clear way that the drivers are not capable of understanding "all the systems" like he can
and so, in essence, not explicite but clear nonetheless, you (he) really don't need to listen to their uneducated subjective feedback..because HE knows better everything going on in the car..
Now I'm not making this up, I love languages and I read very very well, and not just superficially, when i read I understand when you say things you imply tons of more things......and this was English so not too hard to understand...
Quite frankly I could not believe what he was saying and implying---except that I have known academics and engineers exactly like this who "know" they know in short "everything" and that their "knowledge" trumps all other opinions and that includes direct experience..
Now most people I know over 20-30 years don't seem to change their "world view". They may learn more details but their view of their relationship to the external world doesn't change--probably not from when they're children..
So if he was saying you can't listen to the drivers back then, and he's clearly the darling child of M-Sprout, then why would he listen to anybody.
This makes me wonder if the key to Loebs long success is a more co-operative or collaborationist atmosphere at Citroen vis-a-vis Loeb and the designers/engineers and maybe even down to the mechanics vs the "Great man" theory in the more hierarchical British culture which we have no reason to think doesn't permeate M-sport. And that observation is from working with elite level French mechanics and teams and being around elite or former elite British mechanics and engineers....
Or the opposite way to look at it is maybe the struggles of the other teams stems from their probably more hierarchical organisation, and people....
I base that on the times which like I did claculate yesterday, Petter was cruising along at an actual 0.997% of Loebs times.
So the car can do it, the drivers can do it down to 0.003% (that's three one thousandth of 1 percent).
But something cracks consistently... maybe so simple as Team 'atmosphere'?
What if Gronholm was Loebs team mate all those years ago? Then Loeb may only have 5 titles instead of 9 ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
There again, I might not have watched WRC then,I dont like the sight of blood....
Jari and Mikko from what i ve heard were payed at Ford less than half million.Loeb was at 6 millions these years and about 12 only from Citroen(a move to Ford =loss of red bull also=> more millions).Can you show me a champion that he changed the winning team for 1/7 of money when he haven t got any problem?Waiting for your example.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Team atmosphere is good when Mr. Matton orders the pawns on the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Any news/links/photo/video for the historic part of this Rally?
OK, team atmosphere is important regarding every day business as known on Wall Street and other businesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
But no, this tiny difference cannot be explained as "team atmosphere" it´s just spelled LOEB. When he cruises around the other top guys, and mark I call them top drivers because they are, have to to do everything they can to have same speed. But no, it´s impossible to have that for example on 45 km German tarmac stage.
So let´s see this clear. Mr Loeb is so superntural that unless he don´t qiut the WRC ASAP the WRC will be dead and gone in a couple of years from now...
i have to correct you, dimvii. yes, schumi ruined F1. really. i didn't watch F1 for 8-10 yrs because the uninterested races with schumi 10-20 sec in front. always.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
same in wrc, with seb.all respect to that guy, seems like a really nice guy to. he's the best driver, oh yes! he also have the best codriver. noone will disagree he is inside the best team(with best budget), and few will disagree he had the best car the most of times. the problem is that noone has had this combination before. in the "golden" 90's, the best drivers won 3 events thru the year, and retired 3-4 events also.
to be analytic, seb have been a "lucky guy", variable competition, few teams, max 2-3 drivers close to competitive, but not totaly at "par". cars has been breakable, due to overload and to high risktaking from the other guys. i think that, they have to be at 105% all the time to match his speed, then its easy to do mistakes. but its not sebs fault.
Shumacher destroyed F1 - No, FIA did that. I like the yearly days of Schumacher when he was trying to beat Senna, Hakkinen, etc with slower car. Last his (champion) years were lame though, he was just cruising to victory just like Loeb does now... strange coincidence. I hope WRC will very much survive and get back it's charm next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
Not sure if there's ever been a proper discussion about the relative merits of co-drivers but from conversations with people who have far more rally knowledge and experience than myself, I've been told Elena isn't a great co-driver really. Obviously good, but not great - it's simply that he makes Loeb feel 'comfortable' (which some may argue is what makes a good co-driver). From people who have discussed these sort of things in depth I'm led to believe Giraudet and Floene are generally regarded as the best in the business, but feel free to correct me/put forward a different opinion!Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
I believe only in results - if Elena was co-driver in 8 titles, then he must be the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
A good driver also make sure he has a good car.
Meaning he will be a vital part in making the team and car.
Its not like the driver just drives the car at the race/rally and everything is already done.
Both in WRC and F1 there is allot of hours of testing from the drivers and it also requires them
to be able to give good input to the engineers and mechanics on the car, settings and etc.
As well as "finding"/"picking" his team. I'm pretty sure that Seb knows exactly how he want
the car to be, what typ of mechanics and engineers he want to have around him.
Obviously Citroen have the biggest budget but it does not matter if you don't spend the money
in the right way. Its like in sailing it doesn't help to have the fastest boat if you're going in the wrong direction.