Singapore 2008: Briatore and Symmonds resign

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

'Twas but a mere assuption me ole mucker!

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Yeah, but you based your argument on it.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Yeah, but you based your argument on it.

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Of course, because it was MY argument. I hope my opinions are not about to be dictated to me? :laugh:

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Well, we don't know yet, but that was not the accusation levied by the author....

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We are gauging the degree and level of sleaze here, and Sleazy Flav wins hands down!!

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Of course, because it was MY argument. I hope my opinions are not about to be dictated to me? :laugh:

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Can't take a bit of criticism over YOUR opinions, eh lad?! :p :

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

We are gauging the degree and level of sleaze here, and Sleazy Flav wins hands down!!

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Yep by a nautical mile, nah make that two miles! :)

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Originally Posted by ioan

Can't take a bit of criticism over YOUR opinions, eh lad?! :p :

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Yes, but I get enough of that from 'er indoors!! ;)

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

We are gauging the degree and level of sleaze here, and Sleazy Flav wins hands down!!

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Yes, but surely in respect of the thread title.

You can't really say Flav is wrong for bad mouthing the Piquets when it was OK for Piquet Snr to do it at his discretion in the past.

They are both as bad as each other in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I bet she will duck it.

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Potential there for a quality Freudian slip!!! ;)

When I first heard of this conspiracy to crash by Jr, I thought it was totally absurd and ranked with the moon landing conspiracies. There were just too many gaps and intricacies for this to be real. And reading the first few pages of this thread, I can see I was not alone in this wild accusation - nothing more than sour grapes from a driver who was fired for lack of performance.

Then the facts started to be made known, the planning and fuel loads and location of the crash where there was no crane or exit from the track so that the Safety Car had to be deployed. Bringing Alonso in two laps before the crash was a masterstroke. Getting Jr to agree to crash was masterful.

Then when we read about the FIA investigation and Pat Symonds evasive answers and reluctance to say anything meaningful, we suddenly realise that this was real. The sudden departure of both Flav and Symonds from Renault on the eve of the WMSC hearing left few in doubt as to who was really guilty.

I was always uneasy at the manner that Jarno Trulli was fired, and then when Fisi porved very fast in Oz where he won, only to be frustrated (remember when he threw his gloves and got ticked off by Flav) in the following races made me feel something was not kosher at Team Renault.

The WMSC hearing on Monday may reveal even more or merely just to confirm what most of us already "know".

I certainly hope we have heard the last of Flav and that he will never be a part of any form of motorsport in the future.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Yes, but surely in respect of the thread title.

You can't really say Flav is wrong for bad mouthing the Piquets when it was OK for Piquet Snr to do it at his discretion in the past.

They are both as bad as each other in my opinion.

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So!! tell me something new!!

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

When I first heard of this conspiracy to crash by Jr, I thought it was totally absurd and ranked with the moon landing conspiracies. There were just too many gaps and intricacies for this to be real. And reading the first few pages of this thread, I can see I was not alone in this wild accusation - nothing more than sour grapes from a driver who was fired for lack of performance.

Then the facts started to be made known, the planning and fuel loads and location of the crash where there was no crane or exit from the track so that the Safety Car had to be deployed. Bringing Alonso in two laps before the crash was a masterstroke. Getting Jr to agree to crash was masterful.

Then when we read about the FIA investigation and Pat Symonds evasive answers and reluctance to say anything meaningful, we suddenly realise that this was real. The sudden departure of both Flav and Symonds from Renault on the eve of the WMSC hearing left few in doubt as to who was really guilty.

I was always uneasy at the manner that Jarno Trulli was fired, and then when Fisi porved very fast in Oz where he won, only to be frustrated (remember when he threw his gloves and got ticked off by Flav) in the following races made me feel something was not kosher at Team Renault.

The WMSC hearing on Monday may reveal even more or merely just to confirm what most of us already "know".

I certainly hope we have heard the last of Flav and that he will never be a part of any form of motorsport in the future.

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Nicely summed up. I too hope the rotten parts of Renault have been cut away and we can draewn a line under this sorry tale and get back to racing.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Yes, but I get enough of that from 'er indoors!! ;)

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That's a good excuse! :D

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Yes, but surely in respect of the thread title.

You can't really say Flav is wrong for bad mouthing the Piquets when it was OK for Piquet Snr to do it at his discretion in the past.

They are both as bad as each other in my opinion.

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Well said :up:

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Originally Posted by henners88

I wouldn't say Schumacher deliberately drove into the back of Coulthard, now thats below the belt ioan i'm afraid... :p

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What a coincidence, I wouldn't say that either! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Potential there for a quality Freudian slip!!! ;)

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:D

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

!. In answer to you opening sentence, read the link given in this thread, and where it has been discussed alread, and where most of us called him a sleazy scumbag.

In answer to your second sentence, Yes! [read the questions put to Pat Symonds that he evaded], and Yes! He is a lying, cheating, conniving scumbag!.

In answer to your third and fourth sentences, they have been discussed ad infinitum here long before you blessed us here with your presence.

In answer to your next sentence, this has nothing to do with Humphrey Bogart.

And we all than you for your last paragraph!! and we don't give a shyte!!

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The issue - glaring issue is the hypocrisy that extends from racing to this board.

That maybe Briatore lied - what about Mclaren's and especially Hamilton - they ALL lied and made David Ryan the scapegoat. Where was the indignation and condemnation then? More importantly why is Hamilton still racing because he lied as much as all the others and did bear false witness.

So fingers can be pointed but it is done selectively here.

Maybe y'all get so upset because it is the truth.

My disgust is the glee that is being expressed here and the extreme words of condemnation, so easily written towards an individual, Briatore, before a trial has even been held. You are all worse than Piquet because at least he KNOWS what happened.

The action by Renault is not based on guilt, it is an attempt to reach a plea bargain of sorts.

And even if Briatore and Symonds are found guilty, is this reason to act as if these people have committed murder? You all know these people from the sport yet you turn on them without any thought of the good they did in motor racing.

What is the difference between ramming another driver, parking dangerously at a corner, lying under oath and so on that has all been done in f1?

Mark Webber has already stated that at least the danger involved in a situation where Piquet deliberately crashes is not a reason for the uproar.

But there are many that resent Briatore and probably they will and maybe the FIA will use this stick to beat the man.

Bernie and Lauda have commented and they are correct and decently spoken without using the disgraceful tone that exists towards Briatore on this thread - but then it is easy to sit and do that all safely, and be so brave, behind the annoymous keyboard.

At least the people IN racing have not pronounced him guilty like so many here, without a trial.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I wouldn't say Schumacher deliberately drove into the back of Coulthard, now thats below the belt ioan i'm afraid... :p

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Thats true, all Schumacher did was deliberately directly crash into another driver.

He is lucky it was Damon Hill and not AJ Foyt or Jody Scheckter - because the German driver would always remember the American or South African knuckle sandwich he richly deserved.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

but then it is easy to sit and do that all safely, and be so brave, behind the annoymous keyboard.

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I will say it to your face if you want. Should I give you my address? :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

The issue - glaring issue is the hypocrisy that extends from racing to this board.

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We are all part of this board, you included. And I wouldn't say that your views are less hypocrite than others people.
So please do get off the high horse and try to behave like part of this board not like some kind of self canonized forum member. It would help you see things better and improve communication with other forum members, IMO.

I suppose now we could hear stories coming in from other drivers like Fisico,Trulli,Button on how they were treated by Slavio Briatore

Saint Devote: "The action by Renault is not based on guilt, it is an attempt to reach a plea bargain of sorts."

Bilgeington.

If Briatore is innocent are you trying to tell me that he would knowingly quit and cease his defamation statement for the sake of a company he has no affiliation to other than that it employs him? A man of his wealth and power is actually going to ruin his reputation by admitting he's guilty when he isn't???

I appreciate that the letter of the law should be upheld - such as it is with the FIA - but we've long since gone past smoke and fires with this one. We don't have to be coy about the guilt just because he hasn't explicitly owned up to it because the actions alone tell us all we need to know: these two did it, been booted out for it and Renault are now desperately hoping they can pull some sort of dignity out of the fire.

I only hope their disgracefully motivated actions don't ultimately cause the redundancies of 700 people who they had a duty of care for but which both of them appear to have been incredibly cynical if not myopic about.

And that is a disgrace; not the bad mouthing of a known - and convicted, incidentally - fraudster and bully who if he'd had any dignity should have quit years ago rather than been forced out by yet another action of self-interest that finally caught up with him.

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Originally Posted by Pitflaps

If Briatore is innocent are you trying to tell me that he would knowingly quit and cease his defamation statement for the sake of a company he has no affiliation to other than that it employs him? A man of his wealth and power is actually going to ruin his reputation by admitting he's guilty when he isn't???

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Well...Briatore has said (link) "I was just trying to save the team. It's my duty. That's the reason I've finished."

Perhaps Saint would like to take some delve into some of Flavs dealings prior to the Bennetton (pre F1) days, or perhaps could divulge some information into the shade that exists surrounding the bomb outside his house in the 90's that was never explained before nailing his colours to Flavs flag (pole).

yes he's acheived plenty, he's been very successful inside and outside F1, but contgroversy has always surrounded him - Bennetton Traction control? Tampered fuel rigs? McLaren data in the system? he's always been happy to insult other drivers and cry foul against his team when it suits (see Double Diffusers and Jenson Button from this year alone)

he is not some paragon of virtue that you make out, he is a highly successful and highly ruthless man who has taken one chance too many. sure he's been a colourful character, but the entertainment he's brought has steadily been overtaken by the sleaze and as such he has to go.

what better way to admit guilt than to quit (whilst pushed) and not contest the charges.

and for the record there has been plenty of outpourings regarding Hamilton, Schumacher, McLaren, Ferrari and pretty much every controversy here, this is not new, unlike yourself. but the act of reckless endagerment as a method of cheating, and lieing about it is about as bad as it comes and Piquet is as guilty as anyone, knowing the history of his father, and of Jnrs time in the lower formulae in S America i'm not the least bit surprised by his part in this.

that he was willing to partake in the scheme is bad enough, to carry it out, lie about it and then only come clean as a grudge/bargaining tool is just scummy behaviour - if the piquets are never seen in F1 either i will not shed a tear

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Well...Briatore has said (link) "I was just trying to save the team. It's my duty. That's the reason I've finished."

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Not sure why :p but I don't believe him, not even 1%.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Ha ha we actually agree :p
We all know Coulthard with his supreme powers managed to focus his eyes onto a 3 inch mirror covered in water droplets, and see through several hundred yards of thick spray... That or he managed to hear and understand more than 3 words through a crackly, analogue, late ninties team radio..

Mclaren:"Schumacher is somewhere on the track behind you, we don't know whereabouts I'm afraid. Eddie Jordan doesn't even know Damon is in contention or where the Benson and Hedges girls are. The TV camera's can hardly follow where anyone is, but if you can mate slow down, use the force, and try to knock him off"....

Well thats my take on it anyway... :)

Sorry off topic my fault...

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You watched to much Star Wars! ;)

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Originally Posted by Robinho

That he was willing to partake in the scheme is bad enough, to carry it out, lie about it and then only come clean as a grudge/bargaining tool is just scummy behaviour - if the piquets are never seen in F1 either i will not shed a tear

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Hang on, I'll just check in my sympathy vault.

No,

Nothing,

Sorry. Must be the recession. Nought left in there :)

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Originally Posted by Robinho

and for the record there has been plenty of outpourings regarding Hamilton, Schumacher, McLaren, Ferrari and pretty much every controversy here, this is not new, unlike yourself. but the act of reckless endagerment as a method of cheating, and lieing about it is about as bad as it comes and Piquet is as guilty as anyone, knowing the history of his father, and of Jnrs time in the lower formulae in S America i'm not the least bit surprised by his part in this.

that he was willing to partake in the scheme is bad enough, to carry it out, lie about it and then only come clean as a grudge/bargaining tool is just scummy behaviour - if the piquets are never seen in F1 either i will not shed a tear

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I don't know much about Piquet Jr's antics in the South American Racing Scene,so is there anything that i should know that makes me lose my symphathy for him :?:

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Originally Posted by henners88

I can't believe you have any sympathy for him :eek:

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actually to be honest, i do...

here's a guy who's racing his first year in F1 and being told to crash so that his team-mate can win a high profile race...(the first night race in F1,that oughta attract quite a bit of sponsorship)

I don't like the fact about the circumstances that got him to reveal the truth...but he's a young driver...a rookie....

I know about NPSr and his mindgames but I think he was pressurized into doing this.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I can't believe you have any sympathy for him :eek:

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Why not?!
When you see how much sympathy (I'd even say love) Saint Devote devotes :p to Sleazy Flab I find it very natural for someone to have a bit of sympathy for Jr. too.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

The issue - glaring issue is the hypocrisy that extends from racing to this board.

That maybe Briatore lied - what about Mclaren's and especially Hamilton - they ALL lied and made David Ryan the scapegoat. Where was the indignation and condemnation then? More importantly why is Hamilton still racing because he lied as much as all the others and did bear false witness.

So fingers can be pointed but it is done selectively here.

Maybe y'all get so upset because it is the truth.

My disgust is the glee that is being expressed here and the extreme words of condemnation, so easily written towards an individual, Briatore, before a trial has even been held. You are all worse than Piquet because at least he KNOWS what happened.

The action by Renault is not based on guilt, it is an attempt to reach a plea bargain of sorts.

And even if Briatore and Symonds are found guilty, is this reason to act as if these people have committed murder? You all know these people from the sport yet you turn on them without any thought of the good they did in motor racing.

What is the difference between ramming another driver, parking dangerously at a corner, lying under oath and so on that has all been done in f1?

Mark Webber has already stated that at least the danger involved in a situation where Piquet deliberately crashes is not a reason for the uproar.

But there are many that resent Briatore and probably they will and maybe the FIA will use this stick to beat the man.

Bernie and Lauda have commented and they are correct and decently spoken without using the disgraceful tone that exists towards Briatore on this thread - but then it is easy to sit and do that all safely, and be so brave, behind the annoymous keyboard.

At least the people IN racing have not pronounced him guilty like so many here, without a trial.

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I have always called Flav "Sleazy Flav", and this latest sorry episode just strengthens my belief that Sleazy Flav is indeed Sleazy.

This is a discussion forum where we all sit behind an anonymous keyboard to discuss our views. I have never pronounced he is guilty; merely that the facts presented so far indicate that he is. However, by Tuesday, even you will know his guilt.

We are not talking about Sleazy Flav lying only, we are talking about his complicity in race fixing. And I'll be most surprised if he turns up in Singapore next week because there will be the Singaporean authorities who will want to know more about this race fixing that Sleazy Flav was involved in.

You can forget about ramming another driver etc, etc, etc. That has been discussed at great length (as I have already stated) before you graced this forum with your presence. In fact, you seem to have missed the case of forcing another driver into a concrete wall, and we have discussed that also. All that has nothing to do with Sleazy Flav.

This is a discussion forum where we all state our views. You worship Sleazy Flav, and I find him a disgusting character.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Well...Briatore has said (link) "I was just trying to save the team. It's my duty. That's the reason I've finished."

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http://api.ning.com/files/2D12wzLl5-...n_facepalm.jpg

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Originally Posted by Robinho

Perhaps Saint would like to take some delve into some of Flavs dealings prior to the Bennetton (pre F1) days, or perhaps could divulge some information into the shade that exists surrounding the bomb outside his house in the 90's that was never explained before nailing his colours to Flavs flag (pole).

yes he's acheived plenty, he's been very successful inside and outside F1, but contgroversy has always surrounded him - Bennetton Traction control? Tampered fuel rigs? McLaren data in the system? he's always been happy to insult other drivers and cry foul against his team when it suits (see Double Diffusers and Jenson Button from this year alone)

he is not some paragon of virtue that you make out, he is a highly successful and highly ruthless man who has taken one chance too many. sure he's been a colourful character, but the entertainment he's brought has steadily been overtaken by the sleaze and as such he has to go.

what better way to admit guilt than to quit (whilst pushed) and not contest the charges.

and for the record there has been plenty of outpourings regarding Hamilton, Schumacher, McLaren, Ferrari and pretty much every controversy here, this is not new, unlike yourself. but the act of reckless endagerment as a method of cheating, and lieing about it is about as bad as it comes and Piquet is as guilty as anyone, knowing the history of his father, and of Jnrs time in the lower formulae in S America i'm not the least bit surprised by his part in this.

that he was willing to partake in the scheme is bad enough, to carry it out, lie about it and then only come clean as a grudge/bargaining tool is just scummy behaviour - if the piquets are never seen in F1 either i will not shed a tear

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Thank you!

By the way, you don't have a link to the stuff in your first paragraph, do you? Grateful if you could send that to me by PM. Ta!!

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Originally Posted by henners88

Piquet may well have been naive but no less than Lewy boy playing politics on behalf of his team in Australia.. Look at the lynching he got on here, and I remember people saying "he should have refused to lie and been a man and stop trying to pass the buck bla bla"... Why then is this any different??

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We all had our say and condemned him. I felt he should have been banned actually, but that would have upset that horrible dwarf Greedy Bernie. But!! that is off topic - this is about the the race fixing perpetrated by Sleazy Flav, Pat Symonds and that idiot Jr.

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Originally Posted by harsha

I don't know much about Piquet Jr's antics in the South American Racing Scene,so is there anything that i should know that makes me lose my symphathy for him :?:

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its worth having a search for some details on a few antics regarding (i think) Brazilian or S American F3 championships, regarding testing, extra parts and his competitors. i can't remeber all the details but i read enough to think he probably would have struggled to even make GP2 without some of the underhand goings on back there, let alone the budget his team was running on compared to the others.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Thank you!

By the way, you don't have a link to the stuff in your first paragraph, do you? Grateful if you could send that to me by PM. Ta!!

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Flav has lead a more colourful life than a Bennetton advert. There has always been suggestions of dodgy dealings under the surface but for the sake of a Horses head, I won't go into it. Suffice to say his boss decided to be retired by a slight problem with car combustion which preceeded his rise to become involved with Benetton before running NA and finally the race team.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Thank you!

By the way, you don't have a link to the stuff in your first paragraph, do you? Grateful if you could send that to me by PM. Ta!!

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i haven't got anything that i can send you right now, i've read a few things about his "connections" and there is supposedly links to these previous dealings and the bombing. its easy to fill in the blanks and probably end up with a similar idea, although there is obviously not a lot of documented info.

needless to say there was never a result to the investigations into the bombing. there is enough mention of crimes and "families" in teh paragraph below to raise questions at least!

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He was born in 1950 in Verzuolo, in the Italian Piedmont, and earned a living as a ski instructor and restaurant manager before going to work as an assistant to the businessman Attilio Dutto, the owner of the Paramatti Vernici paint manufacturing company. The company's previous owner had been Michele Sindona, a Sicily-born Mafia banker who laundered heroin proceeds for the Gambino family and was poisoned in prison. In 1979 Dutto was killed in a car-bomb attack, the identity and motives of his assassin still unknown.

When the firm collapsed Briatore was charged with fraudulent bankruptcy and given a prison sentence of four and a half years. He moved to the Virgin Islands, but benefited from a legal amnesty and was able to return to Italy and settle in Milan. There he met Luciano Benetton, the head of the clothing firm, who offered him a job arranging franchises in the US

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog...lt-formula-one

also

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Briatore's friendship with Ecclestone survived an early disturbance when, soon after he had bought a house in Cadogan Square from the Formula One ringmaster, a bomb blew off the front door

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Sorry Rob, forgot about the London Bomb. :)

Bored of this now.....next scandal please

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78681

Renault blame Flav

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Originally Posted by Mr Jan Yeo

Bored of this now.....next scandal please

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how about;

Caster Semenya to become new F1 "woman Driver", Piquet Jnr says

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not man enough for him

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Button does not offer to adjust her straps

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i'm afraid i could lose my hand, i've heard she's got teeth down there!

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Vettel overheard saying

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man, she could snap me like a twig

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