Swedish Rally 2010

I find these conditions very interesting!

The Sottozero tyre is wide and totally unsuitable for these conditions. It is an ice-tyre fundamentally and now there's no ice at all. I remember once driving a rally in similar wide tyres on loose snow (we just didn't have other tyres!) and it is like this: good grip on frozen gravel and zero on the loose. So I predict a lot of offs in Sweden this year. (don't tell anyone, we went off 3 times in that rally years back!) :)

The studs work perfect on ice, cutting deep in to the ice, the studs make the grip not the rubber. On frozen gravel there's no ice to cut in, but the wide tyre has ok grip on gravel. But on loose snow, especially when there's no ice underneath it to grip on, it is a disaster!

Tyre wear is another issue for the drivers, frozen gravel is brutal for the tyres.

But don't make a mistake, this is a normal winter condition, nothing to compare to the 2008 edition!

So this is just good for the spectators and really interesting for the drivers, now the real driving skills count!

Interview with Sousa with on boards of recce.
Link: http://www.facebook.com/permalink.ph...d=279744945412

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Originally Posted by Sami

I find these conditions very interesting!

The Sottozero tyre is wide and totally unsuitable for these conditions. It is an ice-tyre fundamentally and now there's no ice at all. I remember once driving a rally in similar wide tyres on loose snow (we just didn't have other tyres!) and it is like this: good grip on frozen gravel and zero on the loose. So I predict a lot of offs in Sweden this year. (don't tell anyone, we went off 3 times in that rally years back!) :)

The studs work perfect on ice, cutting deep in to the ice, the studs make the grip not the rubber. On frozen gravel there's no ice to cut in, but the wide tyre has ok grip on gravel. But on loose snow, especially when there's no ice underneath it to grip on, it is a disaster!

Tyre wear is another issue for the drivers, frozen gravel is brutal for the tyres.

But don't make a mistake, this is a normal winter condition, nothing to compare to the 2008 edition!

So this is just good for the spectators and really interesting for the drivers, now the real driving skills count!

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:up:

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Originally Posted by swordsman

I just went nuts on Gröndal's stupid comment. Send this link to Van Merksteijn too? ;) http://www.maxattack.net/2010/02/som...er-conditions/

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No wonder you swedes never get this right. How the conditions is in the woods has nothing to do with it. It's the conditions on the road that counts. The organizer really needs to get the funds to prepare the stages right. If you drive on gravel, it's not a proper winter rally.

Haha, lovely to see my post is getting some reactions here. I knew they would come and that was very much my intention. :D The funny is that every single one that has commented on it here is people don't getting what it's all about.

It's not about what conditions are most fun to drive on. If so, I'm sure ice is funnier than gravel. And it's not about what preserves the tyres best - that's ice for sure. It's about what WINTER is. And winter in Sweden (and Norway as well) is cold temperatures (below zero), snow and sometimes even ice. However, the ice comes when melted stuff freezes again. And the problem in Sweden isn't that we doesn't have winter - it's that stuff hasn't melted because we have had TOO MUCH winter. I don't know the situation in Norway, but if they've got more ice they have had more wet conditions = warmer weather. That's not exactly what I call more winter?!?!

So, I can accept that Gröndal doesn't think it's fun with just loose, dry snow and gravel under it and that he and potentially all other drivers think it's less fun to drive on - but it's certainly very much winter. That's it. And the spectators as well as media (which is in numbers a loooot more people than the few drivers) will have a really good show with a lot of wintry feeling no matter what. (I must admit I get a little bit pissed when drivers give people the totally wrong impression that they won't have a good, wintry experience here)

That's the serious parts. Besides that, I just felt tired of complaining guys and had to be a little bit nasty back. Not a big deal I think, but I seem to have ruined your world guys... Sorry :D Have a break and try the icecream trick, it's really funny and you can learn one thing or another :) LOL

Swedish Rally 2000 :)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/811259/008%2...os%20Sainz.JPG

Nice snow banks to lean on...

The Grøndal ”Swedish winter/snow lesson/ you are plain stupid comments” seems to have worked, he is today reporting much better conditions on the northern stages (Liknas?)

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Originally Posted by Viking

The Grøndal ”Swedish winter/snow lesson/ you are plain stupid comments” seems to have worked, he is today reporting much better conditions on the northern stages (Liknas?)

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Haha, that's nice to hear. Mostly because I like the icy conditions too - to be honest ;)

should I go to Recce SS1/8 or Scruteneering P2 P3 cars ? :)

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Originally Posted by Gard

No wonder you swedes never get this right. How the conditions is in the woods has nothing to do with it. It's the conditions on the road that counts. The organizer really needs to get the funds to prepare the stages right. If you drive on gravel, it's not a proper winter rally.

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Isnt the lack of funds one of the biggest reasons why Rally Norway never will happend again as a WRC event??

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Originally Posted by MHjerpe

should I go to Recce SS1/8 or Scruteneering P2 P3 cars ? :)

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Go to scruteneering! Maybe u can get your hands of some of the all female rides :bounce: :kiss:

Or maybe they have their scruteneering later ;)

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Originally Posted by Koppomsbo

Go to scruteneering! Maybe u can get your hands of some of the all female rides :bounce: :kiss:

Or maybe they have their scruteneering later ;)

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Hmmm :)

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Originally Posted by MHjerpe

should I go to Recce SS1/8 or Scruteneering P2 P3 cars ? :)

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Go to scrutineering, and ask Sami where to go to spectate if you want action, Sami has the touch how to find tricky places.

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Originally Posted by swordsman

Haha, that's nice to hear. Mostly because I like the icy conditions too - to be honest ;)

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You don't need temperature melting to get hard surfaces. Compression has similar effect.

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Originally Posted by Gard

You don't need temperature melting to get hard surfaces. Compression has similar effect.

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Naah... Compression doesn't melt stuff. But sure, friction generates higher temperature which generates melting. And compression makes the surface harder (but no, it doesn't create ice). So sure, parts of what you say are right...

However, uncompressed snow is still winter :)

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Originally Posted by Koppomsbo

Isnt the lack of funds one of the biggest reasons why Rally Norway never will happend again as a WRC event??

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You could dream about that, Koppomsbo, but it is not in any way decided yet.
It is true that the events in 2007 and 2009 ended in big red figures (appr. NOK 20 mill. in total), but this doesn`t necessarily result in a closedown of Rally Norway as a WRC-event. FIA still have Rally Norway provisionally on the 2011 calender, and representatives of the Norwegian ASN together with government officials will be present to follow the rally in Sweden this weekend. Rally Norway has asked the government for economical support, and it wouldn`t surprise me if this happens.
So please, all swedes, don`t start planning a Rally Sweden in 2011 yet. You still have a competitor for the snowrally slot in the WRC also for coming years.

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Originally Posted by swordsman

Naah... Compression doesn't melt stuff. But sure, friction generates higher temperature which generates melting. And compression makes the surface harder (but no, it doesn't create ice). So sure, parts of what you say are right...

However, uncompressed snow is still winter :)

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Yeah.. but the ski competition is in Vancouver :s mokin: Go Northug, go Northug

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Originally Posted by Iskald

You could dream about that, Koppomsbo, but it is not in any way decided yet.
It is true that the events in 2007 and 2009 ended in big red figures (appr. NOK 20 mill. in total), but this doesn`t necessarily result in a closedown of Rally Norway as a WRC-event. FIA still have Rally Norway provisionally on the 2011 calender, and representatives of the Norwegian ASN together with government officials will be present to follow the rally in Sweden this weekend. Rally Norway has asked the government for economical support, and it wouldn`t surprise me if this happens.
So please, all swedes, don`t start planning a Rally Sweden in 2011 yet. You still have a competitor for the snowrally slot in the WRC also for coming years.

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Dont worry Friend, i live as close to the swedish rally as the norwegian rally so it dosent matter for me.. I also read Norwegian newspapers daily so i know about the situation.. I myself think that we should at least switch every year between us.

Marcus and Timo are back !!

http://forum.rallyeforce.free.fr/fil...fgfgfgffff.jpg

Follow my Rally Sweden here (it doesn´t require an account):

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...6&l=2fe976468c

Any photos from the recce?

Anyone has a link to the starting order?

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Originally Posted by swordsman

Naah... Compression doesn't melt stuff. But sure, friction generates higher temperature which generates melting. And compression makes the surface harder (but no, it doesn't create ice). So sure, parts of what you say are right...

However, uncompressed snow is still winter :)

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As a natural scientist I must say that you are wrong. This heat related. You know that water melts at 0 degrees and boils at 100 degrees when the pressure is 1 Atmosphere. When you climb up to the high mountains, then you can see that water boils already in 80 degrees and you cannot boil potatoes.
Under the Antarctic ice layer in some places you can get also liquid water and it is due to the high pressure. When the pressure is higher, then the melting temperature is lower. On the glaciers the ice shield often forms in similar way. Due to the very thick snow layer it compacts due to its own weight and at some point the weight is so high that snow has turned to ice. So, under the wheels of cars similar ice can actually form. But when there is nearly no local traffic and maybe only a few small cars, then recce cars with bit higher speed and bit more aggressive driving style are going to cut through the very thin ice and snow layer. The ice layer is so thin thanks to the fact that snow plough always cleans roads after snowing and there are not enough cars passing the road between the start of snowing and passage of snow plough.

And by the way, Loeb also went into the ditch during the recce.

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Originally Posted by bluuford

As a natural scientist I must say that you are wrong. This heat related. You know that water melts at 0 degrees and boils at 100 degrees when the pressure is 1 Atmosphere. When you climb up to the high mountains, then you can see that water boils already in 80 degrees and you cannot boil potatoes.
Under the Antarctic ice layer in some places you can get also liquid water and it is due to the high pressure. When the pressure is higher, then the melting temperature is lower. On the glaciers the ice shield often forms in similar way. Due to the very thick snow layer it compacts due to its own weight and at some point the weight is so high that snow has turned to ice. So, under the wheels of cars similar ice can actually form. But when there is nearly no local traffic and maybe only a few small cars, then recce cars with bit higher speed and bit more aggressive driving style are going to cut through the very thin ice and snow layer. The ice layer is so thin thanks to the fact that snow plough always cleans roads after snowing and there are not enough cars passing the road between the start of snowing and passage of snow plough.

And by the way, Loeb also went into the ditch during the recce.

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Haha, I'm immediately taking a step down in favour of your knowledge. Thanks for the explanation. However, I still claim that you can't call the current conditions anything else than true winter conditions :) (And I also doubt more traffic would have changed things significantly... It must take years [ no proof of that but some experience from living in Sweden ] to build a thick solid ice layer with just pressure and snow!?!)

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Originally Posted by swordsman

Haha, I'm immediately taking a step down in favour of your knowledge. Thanks for the explanation. However, I still claim that you can't call the current conditions anything else than true winter conditions :) (And I also doubt more traffic would have changed things significantly... It must take years [ no proof of that but some experience from living in Sweden ] to build a thick solid ice layer with just pressure and snow!?!)

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Yeah, I originate from small village. Close to us is medium sized cattle farm. Every day workers with small cars and minibuses, milk truck, heavy machinery carrying food and school bus drives on that road and we have had also only minus degrees, but the road is covered with very solid ice layer.

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Originally Posted by bluuford

Yeah, I originate from small village. Close to us is medium sized cattle farm. Every day workers with small cars and minibuses, milk truck, heavy machinery carrying food and school bus drives on that road and we have had also only minus degrees, but the road is covered with very solid ice layer.

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Okay, that's cool - but solid enough to prevent the gravel from showing up in the tracks after 100 rally cars? That would require at least half a decimeter of ice I guess...? Surely you can get a thin layer, but can you get that thickness?

Don't know if also on gravel, but on tarmac for sure if there is enough traffic (especially lorries and buses).

Some of the roads are not much in daily use, I have read somewhere, and have just recently been cleared. So no cars have had the chance to compress the snow. That is why it just disappear now, it is just powder-snow.

Maybe the organizer should have made sure that the roads had been driven on regularly to create the ice sole ? But we are talking long distances here, but it is not impossible with local volunteers !

whats the fuss guys, the conditions dont differ too much in a seeded entry, this might make it even more interesting, on tarmac rally they very seldom dry the tarmac after rain too.

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Originally Posted by Tomi

whats the fuss guys, the conditions dont differ too much in a seeded entry, this might make it even more interesting, on tarmac rally they very seldom dry the tarmac after rain too.

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That's a really good point. All this chat is from a driver point of view. For spectators, it's just extra drama. You'll get your feet snowy, I promise! :D

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Originally Posted by swordsman

That's a really good point. All this chat is from a driver point of view. For spectators, it's just extra drama. You'll get your feet snowy, I promise! :D

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Yes and if they can drive, they can drive in this conditions too, guys used to drive on snow sure dont get much help from the snow banks, its likely that they are soft powder as well, it makes it all very interesting.

This will be a tyre preserving competition !

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Originally Posted by Sulland

This will be a tyre preserving competition !

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Kind of yes, but almost every rally is to some point.

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Originally Posted by Tomi

Yes and if they can drive, they can drive in this conditions too, guys used to drive on snow sure dont get much help from the snow banks, its likely that they are soft powder as well, it makes it all very interesting.

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Yep, I totally agree. If they can't drive on all surfaces, they're in the wrong business - aren't they? Then of course they may think it's more or less pleasure - but damn, regarding the works drivers it's their _job_. :)

I'm a little bit more understanding to the guys doing the Swedish Championship, private guys with really small budgets often coming straight from their own pockets. But that's another story...

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Originally Posted by swordsman

Then of course they may think it's more or less pleasure

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Exactly, because its more difficult now :)

picture taken by Sandell and his co-driver during the recce:

http://ss11i01.stream.ip-only.net/im...22ba402b841263

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Originally Posted by jbmarcus21

Marcus and Timo are back !!

http://forum.rallyeforce.free.fr/fil...fgfgfgffff.jpg

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Marcus looks to have aged a little! no? A podium would be great for Marcus.

I dunno if this has been posted before, but you can follow the rally live with Ramona Karlsson. http://www.ice.net/se/rally/Default.aspx
This should be streamed live. Ramona is doing the Swedish championship, so you can follow her during Friday and Saturday. Looks like they might have a camera at colin's crest also for the Saturday.

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Originally Posted by Koppomsbo

Dont worry Friend, i live as close to the swedish rally as the norwegian rally so it dosent matter for me.. I also read Norwegian newspapers daily so i know about the situation.. I myself think that we should at least switch every year between us.

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I have been to all Swedish rally since 98, and to all 3 Rally Norway. If there is only one snow event per year i absolutely think it should be in Sweden.. Nicer prices, nicer peolpe,much better for spectators, Swedish rally has "soul", where i think rally Norway has not. Best if wee could have 2 snow rallies, but since we have not, Sweden is the best! Maybe Norway could host a snow IRC event??

Some photos from scrutineering on my blog... Flodin was off for an hour at today's recce after meeting a car :S