Ferrari/McLaren Espionage Story [merged]

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5th July 2007, 08:47
Flat.tyres

Quote:

Originally Posted by racing59

From an unbiassed point of view (my favourite team is my own!)

Talk of McLaren's upturn in form since April vs Ferrari's fall, and you all forget the early races and the discussion of the "moving floors" which Ferrari has to fix, and McLaren did not suffer with.

Stepney is being stitched up for being p'd off at not being allowed to do a Brawn or Byrne (sabbatical), and what credit for the man who was part of the team that put the Scuderia back on top after many years as a midfield team.

From my own experience of working in the sport of F1, you learn very quickly that there are always plenty of people ready to stab you in the back, and blame you for everything and anything, if it can get "them" out of trouble (until they eventually get found out!).

And what information, of use, could pass from Ferrari to McLaren? As has been said, there is little or no common design areas on any of the cars, except (ahem) the RB and the STR, or the SA07 and the RA07.... And setup information is pointless as different chassis will react totally different to different setups.

In my own racing, there are people who run stiffer spring/lower tyre pressure setups and get a good feel, to those who run soft springs/higher tyre pressures. More or less crossweight/wedge, etc.. The feel for the car is in the driver's confidence.

This whole media driven "trial" is a bit like a medieval witch-hunt with "Trial by ordeal" where they tie rocks to you, throw you in the river. If you drown, then you are innocent, and absolved of any wrongdoing. If you float, you must be a witch and are burned at the stake!

The losers, will be F1 in general as the fans get p'd off with the politics again.

While F1 in the UK is riding high on Lewis-mania, this sort of "scandal" could turn them back off the sport again and back to "Big Brother on Grass" (premier league football).

good points all. if you were going to build a ferrari from scratch, then the plans would have some benefit but otherwise, very little.

I would still urge everyone to not jump to conclusions in this matter. there is something going on but it's as clear as concrete what that "something" is at this time. best wait and see.
5th July 2007, 10:38
MrPonx

I lost interest in this story...

Quote:

Bernie insists that drivers won`t lose points over Stepneygate

Bernie Ecclestone has dismissed claims that Lewis Hamilton could be deducted points as a result of the Stepneygate crisis which threatens to derail the 2007 season.

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...470935,00.html
5th July 2007, 10:40
Valve Bounce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flat.tyres

good points all. if you were going to build a ferrari from scratch, then the plans would have some benefit but otherwise, very little.

I would still urge everyone to not jump to conclusions in this matter. there is something going on but it's as clear as concrete what that "something" is at this time. best wait and see.

Very good point! :up:
5th July 2007, 11:16
Flat.tyres

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPonx

I lost interest in this story...

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...470935,00.html

slightly misleading.

Bernie doesn't have the power to decide who loses points but just gives his opinion that it would be unfair if they did. he also says that there would have to be evidence that McLaren were involved to take any action.

you cant just penalise a team if an employee does something without their knowledge in an unofficial capacity. as Bernie says, Ron and McLaren have been totally transparent in this matter and completely above board. there has been no suggestion of closing ranks and no suggestion that McLaren have done anything wrong. quite the contarary.

but f**k it. Its McLaren so lets just shoot them anyway. :rolleyes:
5th July 2007, 11:35
jas123f1

Quote:

Originally Posted by f1rocks

http://www.gazzetta.it/Motori/Formu...lomclaren.shtml

The 500 page document received by the Mclaren employee contained the following information:

The 500 pages contain:

- construction drawings and data of the F2007;
- details of the internal structures and workflows in Maranello;
- information on the main engineers;
- data on car setups;
- race strategies;
- preparation of the cars;
- development plans for the future;
- quality control standards;
- testing results.

In other words, they got everything...If they really have all of that, it is not believable that only one McLaren person is involved. A car designer would not really benefit from race strategy, test results, etc. Of couse, they were careful to insulate other higher-ups. However, if money changed hands, it may be possible to prove wider participation at McLaren.

I just cannot believe this. I hope the police get to the bottom of all this soon.

If that is true FIA hasn't so much to deliberate - McLaren must loos their points - at least after that they got this info about Ferrari - and BIG boot - it must also be a question to pay about millions to Ferrari. It really doesn't help to say "we haven't used the information in our cars".. :down:

Its very disappointing .. but sometimes it looks like that - when the big money moves..
5th July 2007, 11:51
Hondo

Possibly these documents were the cause of the "moving floor" protest earlier in the season.
5th July 2007, 12:05
SGWilko

How convenient that the whole document is now in the oublic gaze. If it was that sensitive, Ferrari would not allow the press to print it, now would they. Or, am I jumping to conclusions here, it is merely a reference to what was in that dossier.

Is their some gain to the team by allowing this in the public domain. The more this story runs, the more this smacks of a fit up.

I think this is a case for Columbo/Miss Marple/Judge John Deed/Ironside, or, we could even put 007, our best man on the case....... :D
5th July 2007, 12:05
Flat.tyres

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas123f1

If that is true FIA hasn't so much to deliberate - McLaren must loos their points - at least after that they got this info about Ferrari - and BIG boot - it must also be a question to pay about millions to Ferrari. It really doesn't help to say "we haven't used the information in our cars".. :down:

Its very disappointing .. but sometimes it looks like that - when the big money moves..

let me guess.... Ferrari fan?

must be psychic :p :

can you please enlighten us with your breathtaking perception of this case just what the company has done wrong? for Christs sake, we dont even know if anyones done anything wrong and what it is yet so implicating McLaren in this is a bit far fetched unless you have some knowledge that were not privvy to.
5th July 2007, 12:09
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by f1rocks

If they really have all of that, it is not believable that only one McLaren person is involved. A car designer would not really benefit from race strategy, test results, etc. Of couse, they were careful to insulate other higher-ups. However, if money changed hands, it may be possible to prove wider participation at McLaren.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas123f1

If that is true FIA hasn't so much to deliberate - McLaren must loos their points....

If...if...if...that is the contents of the document...you can speculate and make as many assumptions as you like, but without a basis in fact any assumption is on thin ground.

Deciding on a penalty for one party in all of this is premature at best.
5th July 2007, 12:31
leopard

They can actually go with their own data which was proven that they can make a fastest ever F1 car before. They need only to make more perfection on cut backs of any achievement with their current resource.

This might tarnish credibility of McLaren, but as usual such any accusation on dirty strategy as team orders or anything will wind up sooner or later, that's the interesting part of F1

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