Young talented drivers

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19th February 2015, 17:46
nafpaktos

Quote:

Originally Posted by N.O.T

Makinen always had the top car apart from his last year with mitsubishi

NO
19th February 2015, 18:36
Rallyper

Quote:

Originally Posted by N.O.T

the first few championships he won with citroen (maybe2-3) the car was crap on gravel and top on tarmac then he indeed had the top car.

Makinen always had the top car apart from his last year with mitsubishi... then he moved to a championship winning car and was run over like a newborn dog from Solberg... Gronholm as well managed to lose a championship with the best car which was the peugeot...

only 2 drivers won championships with cars that where not top... Loeb and Burns.

I don´t get it. Subaru wasn´t a top car in 2001? Right? And it was a top car in 2004? It really wasn´t.
19th February 2015, 18:43
tommeke_B

Back to young talented drivers maybe? Loeb, Burns, Solberg, Gronholm, those were young talents, but don't belong in this topic. 20 years ago yes...

@Rallyper why don't you talk about the prestation of Emil Bergkvist in WRC Sweden in stead? No real competition for him but for me he was far more impressive than Veiby (who also didn't have competition in his class). Very fast and tidy driving. :)
19th February 2015, 19:12
N.O.T

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallyper

I don´t get it. Subaru wasn´t a top car in 2001? Right? And it was a top car in 2004? It really wasn´t.

Solberg was champion in 2003 with a subaru... so yes it was.

In 2001 Peugot was the best car by miles.
19th February 2015, 19:39
jparker

Well, some people forget that no other factory team had direct support by manufacturers. I don't want to take anything away from Prodrive and other middle man, but they simply have no chance against Citroen army of engineers.
Although I have no hard proof, I believe no other team except Citroen have invested so much money for WRC development.
That's why I will never accept Loeb as "best of the best". He just purchased his titles with huge support no one else had.
19th February 2015, 20:52
MJW

Quote:

Originally Posted by jparker

Well, some people forget that no other factory team had direct support by manufacturers. I don't want to take anything away from Prodrive and other middle man, but they simply have no chance against Citroen army of engineers.
Although I have no hard proof, I believe no other team except Citroen have invested so much money for WRC development.
That's why I will never accept Loeb as "best of the best". He just purchased his titles with huge support no one else had.

At the height of their success Citroen's annual test budget was equal to Subaru's whole season budget and Citroen had more chefs than Prodrive had engineers. Having said that SKODA was not a small budget team, they had more money under Audi bosses than Citroen and they didn't manage a win.You have to hand it to Citroen they were the ultimate in professionalism. It's the same approach in WTCC, even using some of their test days in having 3 Citroen's crash into each other to replicate racing damage and how that affects the car. aero etc.
19th February 2015, 21:01
Rallyper

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommeke_B

Back to young talented drivers maybe? Loeb, Burns, Solberg, Gronholm, those were young talents, but don't belong in this topic. 20 years ago yes...

@Rallyper why don't you talk about the prestation of Emil Bergkvist in WRC Sweden in stead? No real competition for him but for me he was far more impressive than Veiby (who also didn't have competition in his class). Very fast and tidy driving. :)

Yes, back to topics. No more crying over Loeb and others... ;)

Emil Bergkvist: Tried to mention him here and there. Maybe also on twitter. But yes, he´s one of the coming men absolutely. Doing so good stagetimes in RS and showed also what he can do by winning Adam cup last year(?) in Germany becoming Opel´s factorydriver. Have a look at www.opel-motorsport.com
19th February 2015, 21:18
Rallyper

How about this one?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-O3DOdIAAIY0O4.jpg:large
19th February 2015, 21:20
Maui J.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N.O.T

only 2 drivers won championships with cars that where not top... Loeb and Burns.

Well, that is debatable, I'm not sure how much inferior Burn's Impreza was to the the 206 or Focus. I would say they were close in performance. The Accent and Lancer (still running Group A specs) were possibly inferior.

Anyway just to put your debate into perspective regarding Championship win in inferior car. I think you only need to look at the 1982 season.
Walter Rohrl in a Opel Ascona vs the might of the Audi Quattro. Now that is a championship win in 'not a top car'.
19th February 2015, 21:41
vino_93

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallyper

Emil Bergkvist: Tried to mention him here and there. Maybe also on twitter. But yes, he´s one of the coming men absolutely. Doing so good stagetimes in RS and showed also what he can do by winning Adam cup last year(?) in Germany becoming Opel´s factorydriver. Have a look at www.opel-motorsport.com

didn't you notice he achieved a great Rally Liepaja ?
For sure he is a good hope. Now let's see him on full JERC champ, in order to see what he can do on tarmac, and classic gravel events. But for sure, one the guys to follow.

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