Poll on who was at fault

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Originally Posted by tamburello

<Default Anglo Forum Member Setting ON>

The German is to blame

<Default Anglo Forum Member Setting OFF>

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Well, the Aussie certainly is not to blame, so I guess you call it right big boy.

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Originally Posted by henners88

What a load of old tripe.. :laugh:
Theres only two people on this entire thread who are bringing nationality into this and you are one of them. Beleive it or not some of us have watched the incident and have formed opinions based on what we saw rather than getting caught up in the stereotypical romance of good old fashioned nationalism. :p

For your information I was born a long, long time after the Second World War, and the days of drinking tea with jam sandwiches on the lawn is long gone my friend. ;)

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when i said,
And of course, all that "data" is the stuff sprewed forth from the mouths of Englanders and aussies and fans of the british way of life, not wanting to see another brit, once again, having his pants beat off by some miserable, scrawny little German


Weren't talking about WWII, I was talking about Schuie, beating Damon like an old drum, over and over again....now the new german comes along....

:vader:


but oh my, look at all those british and aussie flags rallying around to defend their chopper.......

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Originally Posted by Shifter

Webber wasn't told to move over and let Vettel through, so when Vettel made his move Webber instinctively put the squeeze on. When Vettel got ahead by a nose, he instictively tried to take the line back as any F1 driver with a slight lead will try to do based on the unwritten rules of cut-throat F1 driver creed. Webber slightly at fault for doing a full squeeze (meaning pushing him to the line on the side of the track, not further...though Webber has on occasion gone beyond a full sqeeze and into the force-off zone) on a teammate but that's not the direct cause of the accident, just a factor in the collision; Vettel mostly at fault for moving back over so violently that Webber couldn't react in time. I voted both but I'd put it at, oh, 15% Webber and 85% Vettel.

There's been 2 defining moments in the championship chase so far. They are the radiator fan mistake by Buttons' crew, and this collision. When the season is done we can look back on these two moments and consider how they altered the championship, which now at the moment clearly features all drivers on both McLaren and RedBull teams.

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Webber wasn't told to let Vettel through .
But , the lap before , Webber had asked that Vettel be told to back off .

He was denied that request .

This would have been the moment that Sebastian took the message that he should pass .

This rings true with the initial reaction from the bull camp , that Webber caused the trouble by making it too hard .



This is what happens in a series that doesn't allow team orders when , rather ironically , they are required for success .

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Originally Posted by truefan72

I still think Vettel is mostly at fault but as I said Webber is not completely innocent either. I do agree on one point with Markabilly though, and it is something I saw and believed right from the outset. Webber did ever so slightly nudge his car to the left which did contribute to the incident.

At the end of the day it is a racing incident pure and simple with a long set of circumstances that came together to create the collision.
Was it avoidable? yes.
But we are talking about an erratic overtaker in Vettel and a borderline dirty defender of position in Webber so this outcome was destined to happen.

What to me was telling was the initial team's response. If i was Webber, I would be not to pleased about that. I expect more fireworks before the end of the season.

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I know, the pit wall had their arms up in the air in celebration and then ANGER :eek:

If it weren't the concerns about corporate image and those brits and Ausies not drinking the stuff.....webber would be on his way to being scott speed's new team mate, driving a truck........ :rolleyes:

Now I´m sure, Marks days in RBR is numbered.

Although I put the blame on Vettel, I think the real blame lies within the RBR team, especially the guy who decides how much fuel the car will require to complete the race. To me, having your nose a little further in front means you win at the checkered flag but does not constitute a "completed pass". When you can veer left and right without hitting anything you have completed your pass.

I'm sure if you go out on the highway and get your passenger side door even with another motorist's front bumper and then move over on him you'll get a citation from the cop that investigates the accident saying you hadn't completed your pass of the other vehicle before moving back into the main lane.

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Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7

Although I put the blame on Vettel, I think the real blame lies within the RBR team, especially the guy who decides how much fuel the car will require to complete the race. To me, having your nose a little further in front means you win at the checkered flag but does not constitute a "completed pass". When you can veer left and right without hitting anything you have completed your pass.

I'm sure if you go out on the highway and get your passenger side door even with another motorist's front bumper and then move over on him you'll get a citation from the cop that investigates the accident saying you hadn't completed your pass of the other vehicle before moving back into the main lane.

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But if you told the cop that you saw him coming across but chose to hold your line because he had to make the pass stick..... ;)

Hey guys I'm new here but pretty gutted at what happened so had to join up and ask you guys a question.

Does anyone know the layout of a RB6 steering wheel??. If you look at the replay from vettels car at about turn 6 on the lap before the crash he makes 2 adjustments on the steering wheel, what do you think they where??. If webber turned his power down that lap and vettel turned his up, could that make up for the huge speed difference on lap 40??. Maybe he was changing brake bias or wing angle or turning power up, knowing he was going to get a opportunity to pass, just though id throw it out there to see what other people thought.

And i doubt we will ever know how much fuel webber had left. He must not have been to worried about it with the pace he was setting at the end of the race.

I was a great RBR fan, now just a MW fan!

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Originally Posted by FastFoz

Hey guys I'm new here but pretty gutted at what happened so had to join up and ask you guys a question.

Does anyone know the layout of a RB6 steering wheel??. If you look at the replay from vettels car at about turn 6 on the lap before the crash he makes 2 adjustments on the steering wheel, what do you think they where??. If webber turned his power down that lap and vettel turned his up, could that make up for the huge speed difference on lap 40??. Maybe he was changing brake bias or wing angle or turning power up, knowing he was going to get a opportunity to pass, just though id throw it out there to see what other people thought.

And i doubt we will ever know how much fuel webber had left. He must not have been to worried about it with the pace he was setting at the end of the race.

I was a great RBR fan, now just a MW fan!

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I'm not sure what knobs he moved, but I noticed that as well during one of the several replays I watched of the indident. If we could find a pic of the RBR wheel we might be able to figure out what he did.

My complete guess would be that when Mark was going to a fuel saving mixture/map Sebastian was doing the opposite to have a go at him. Likewise I think Jenson did the same.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

But if you told the cop that you saw him coming across but chose to hold your line because he had to make the pass stick..... ;)

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It would still be his fault for moving over without having enough room to do so.

Obviously Vettel was at no time completely past Webber with enough room to move onto Webber's line. Therefore, he had not passed him. Vettel should have backed off when he realized his "pass" fell short of the mark. No pun intended.