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Anyway, as the bishop said to the actress, let's get back to the Bush. He failed, really, didn't he? I mean, we can argue forever about the hows and whys and whatnots, but when you think back to that triumphant aircraft carrier PR stunt to herald the end of the war, that was ages ago, and well, he failed.
Not sure how little Italy pays their doctors, but to say Cuba has more doctors per capita also ignores the reality that that is the one profession the regime has gone out of their way to cultivate, they still get a lot more than the average worker AND...it isn't like they can emigrate Dylan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
Using Cuba is a bit of an exception that doesn't really help your case.
Unnecessarily polite, in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
Well as this: If people from places like Syria and North Korea can respect what George stood for...why cant others? Maybe it is because they never lost their freedoms?Quote:
Originally Posted by fandango
Dubya may not be the greatest politican by any stretch, but I think in standing up to dictators, he didn't do as bad as people think... was El Marko's statement, so--- he failed at what.
He bungled the Iraq war, big time, but the Dem. were so busy BS that did absolutely nothing to point out how the war could have been fought better, with less loss of life, Bush's failing was pale compared to the vacuous obtuse statements made by the Dem.
I am glad the aircraft carrier stunt happened, it did make Pres. Bush's errors poignant to the point he either started fighting the war as a war should be fought, kill them till it hurts, or have it hung around his neck like Clinton got stuck with Mogadishu.
Oh yes, a top Al-Qaeda operative said one reason Osama attacked the towers was because he though Bush would do little more than Clinton did in Africa; although Reagan's running from Lebanon and Carter's running from Iran, not to mention cut-and-run in Vietnam, probably had an influence also.
You're absolutely right. Never start anything you can't finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by fandango
Let's go over the list of Bush's failures in case someone forgot:
- 9/11
- unPATRIOTic Act
- War on two fronts
- Debt
- Katrina
- This is a long list....
- I know there's more....
- There just isn't enough space....
The savior of Iraq from falling off the precipice wasn't Bush. Petraeus is the name, son.
Petraeus did nothing without the White House OK. Just as Rumsfeld was Bush's fault, Patraeus was Bush's credit, sonny.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
Does Cuba force students into medicine? No. They make a choice out of free will. Is medicine any easier to study for there compared to other subjects? No. Do they get paid less relative to the rest of the population compared to the US? Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
Do they have a recruitment problem for doctors? No. You are right about one thing though, the Cuban government does seem to promote medicine as a career as a duty to both the people and the state, something which helps recruit a different kind of person into the profession other than the moneygrabbing types that go for it in the US.
You'll have to point out a case where lowering doctors salaries has reduced the supply of doctors. There simply isn't one. I could talk about Germany too which has oversupply and how little they earn compared to the US or even Britain. We could talk about Russia where even though doctors earn more than back in the Soviet days there are fewer around purely because the training system collapsed. Its the training system that is the bottleneck, not final salary.
Yes, that's a fair point. Our opinions are always coloured by our personal perspectives. Living in Spain, President Aznar's dictatorial style of leadership, ignoring the opinion of the overwhelming majority of the people regarding going into war, and his alliance with Bush and Blair, certainly colours my opinion of what the three of them stood for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
The thing is, this idea of standing up for democracy, of going to war against despots in the name of freedom, there's a problem with Bush and his friends: I don't believe them. Not for a moment. Not when you see how they then treat their own democractic freedom and abuse their power. I think they are lieing. Obviously some do believe them, and that means this discussion can go on and on...
And the people of the countries you mentioned are in desperate situations. Desperation leads to grabbing onto any hope there is. This is no endorsement of Bush or anybody.
That's true. If you train more doctors than are needed, the salaries will go down. If you train less doctors than are needed, the salaries will go up. It's about supply and demand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
Well said. Rumsfeld wasn't much good as Sec. Of Defence. Another of Bush's faults is that he's too loyal. Once he was finally convinced that Rummy just wasn't gonna work out, replaced him with Gates, and Gates installed Patraeus things changed. And boy did they change QUICK. There weren't too many people, on either side of the aisle, that thought Iraq could be stabilized that fast. Bush, Gates, and Patraeus all deserve credit for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe