Singapore 2008: Briatore and Symmonds resign

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Originally Posted by Robinho

i have watched the crash back on youtube, he hits both walls and more than one wheel could easily have been left on the racing line in an acceleration zone, never mind the carbon fibre shards for punctures and other pieces of debirs. whilst Nelson might have been able to prefect a minor accident without hurting himself, the risk of F1 car vs concrete wall is stiull there, never mind the other 19 cars racing at ful speed. it also loked like an unsighted corner so it would give drivers very little time to react to a bouncing wheel or something else in their path. to purposefully create this situation is at least negligent and at worst criminal - both for Piqeut for being part of and going through with teh plan, and Renault for creating and ordering it. of course assuming that they can prove anything, which i doubt.

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And with all that chaos, how could it have been possible to ensure that Alonso didn't hit some of the debris and bung up his race, then and there? End of fiendishly crafted strategy to fix the race and keep Renault in F1, on the ordinary developments of a race. All of which makes it seem highly unlikely to me that any of this story is remotely credible.

ClarkFan

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Ioan, nobody has been found guilty yet.

There has been an allegation, and Renault have been called to answer a charge.

That does not mean jack. It certainly does not mean Renault have cheated, therefore nobody should state that they have cheated.

After the WMSC, then we will know. Until then, there is the basic fair principle of innocent until proven.

We don't know what "proof" there is. If any.

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Totally agree.

I have stated previously that I find this allergation fantastic and hope it has no foundation. However, for such a serious allergation, it is right and proper that it is investigated in full to the sake of F1 and Renault.

If they are guilty then the culprits need to face severe penalties including exclusion from the sport but if they are innocent then they should have no stain or blemish of this allergation attributed to them and if a malicious, spurious rumour has been started, the originator thrown out of the sport for good.

However, referring to the McLaren plans you asked for proof of, there is of course none to say that it was incorporated into the Renault because it wasn't investigated. We know the thief stole plans and worked at Renault on a completely different discipline to what his competency was which happened to coincide with the design of the plans he stole. We also know that the data was availiable to Renault for many months but apparently not used..... or that's what they "told" Charlie.

In fact, we don't have a clue because they were able to sweep up after them and when Charlie "investigated", he took their word at face value and it was all wrapped up in a few hours.

As I said, you want the data then you recover the backup tapes as they are time and dated so cannot be fiddled with but that wasn't desireable. I wonder if they are now that Max has fallen out of bed with Flav ;)

This is why I have not added me thoughts to this - we have no proof as to who made this claim and what evidence they have. Until that happens this is a non-story.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I have stated previously that I find this allergation fantastic and hope it has no foundation. However, for such a serious allergation, it is right and proper that it is investigated in full to the sake of F1 and Renault.

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I agree with that, but.....

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

However, referring to the McLaren plans you asked for proof of, there is of course none to say that it was incorporated into the Renault because it wasn't investigated.

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Thank you for confirming that you have nothing to back up your accusations.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Thank you for confirming that you have nothing to back up your accusations.

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Because it wasn't investigated.

I'm not going to argue about this because it's a crazy situation that was purely political but hopefully it will be investigated yet. If so, I expect you will get all the confirmation you don't want :D

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

If so, I expect you will get all the confirmation you don't want :D

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Once again, thank you for proving you have no proof to your accusations.

That makes them bollocks, cock.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I'm lost, whats the accusation knock-on has made??

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

When I saw that this was being opened out past the Crashgate issue, McLaren data was the first thing that jumped into my mind.

Let's not forget that had the FIA done any more than a cursory "were you being naughty?" investigation then Renault would have been deeper in the than McLaren. There was considerable evidence that data was incorporated into the car and had they asked to see the Backup tapes rather than live systems, then Renault would have been fooked.

Perhaps Flav should have remembered Max turning a blind eye before doing an et tu Brutus.

Making the mistake that Max is down and out is not a clever move!!

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For the record

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Originally Posted by henners88

I'm lost, whats the accusation knock-on has made??

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The "no smoke without fire" allegations that Renault received data from McLaren, but provided investigators with a snapshot of their storage system rather than backup tapes from the time the offence was alleged to have taken place.

T'was a similar allegation to "Spygate", only McLaren got penalised millions while Renault didn't even get properly investigated.

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Renault have escaped punishment in the latest spy scandal to hit Formula One.

The International Automobile Federation (FIA) found Renault guilty of breaching F1 regulations by having rival team McLaren data in their possession.

But the sport's governing body, who will publish their detailed decision on Friday, opted to impose no penalty on former world champions Renault.

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Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7129049.stm

FIA consistency at its very best.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Still lost I'm afraid, Knock-on just repeated what happened back in 2007, nothing new... :)

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No, he repeated an accusation, one that was never proved, which certainly is not "what happened".

For it to be "what happened" you would need proof, and he ain't got any.

All he has is assumptions.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Have you got any proof to say it didn't happen? :D

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About 40% proof no doubt, wrapped in brown paper.....