Universal Health Care Reform in the United States

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Originally Posted by chuck34

I would much rather the government set up guidelines for corporations to work within than having the government actually running things. This is true of any corp.

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Experience in all sorts of fields suggests that those guidelines have to be extremely stringent, and the penalties for poor performance utterly pernicious, in order to force the private company into performing in a manner conducive to offering the best service. All sorts of examples can be found in the UK, where private sector involvement in the public services has often been a disaster in terms of providing those services, yet extremely lucrative for the firms involved. The desire of successive governments to be seen as being 'business-friendly', or whatever, sees to it that this becomes just as damaging a status quo as any lumbering, inefficient publicly-owned body.

I have yet to see anyone explain to me how you add millions of people to the "system" without raising taxes or rationing services.

Anyone?

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

As far as I know, an emergency room will (eventually) see anyone who walks in.

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Just as they do here in the UK — and without the requirement for the patient to sit before a death panel in the course of their visit, as surprising as this may be to some.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Experience in all sorts of fields suggests that those guidelines have to be extremely stringent, and the penalties for poor performance utterly pernicious, in order to force the private company into performing in a manner conducive to offering the best service. All sorts of examples can be found in the UK, where private sector involvement in the public services has often been a disaster in terms of providing those services, yet extremely lucrative for the firms involved. The desire of successive governments to be seen as being 'business-friendly', or whatever, sees to it that this becomes just as damaging a status quo as any lumbering, inefficient publicly-owned body.

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Numerous examples can also be found where too much government involvment has made a mess of things. Ever hear of a little thing called the Community Reinvestment Act?

I'm not saying this is easy, quite the oposite, it's REALLY hard. That's why we need more than two weeks to debate this Bill in Congress.

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Originally Posted by Starter

I think you meant suburban. An urban lifestyle works just fine what with public transportation or walking arounf the corner.

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But where are the worst alcohol problems — in the centres of large cities or the edges of smaller towns?

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Originally Posted by chuck34

I'm not saying this is easy, quite the oposite, it's REALLY hard. That's why we need more than two weeks to debate this Bill in Congress.

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I don't disagree with that at all, Chuck. And a proper debate, based on facts and not baseless hysteria, is what will get us there. Do you agree?

As I've said, I've been a proud NRA member for most all of my adult life. I like my guns. I will not apologize for that. But it greatly concerns me when I see people "exercising their 2nd Amendment rights" in the middle of a townhall debate about health care. There are some true nuts running around out there who are just there just to be part of the show... or to create a show. And what concerns me is that one of these silly b#stards is going to eventually do something stupid, and life will get worse for all of us... especially people like me.

Let's rationally discuss the issue at hand. We, as a people, need to stop allowing ourselves to be played like puppets and sheep by the powers-that-be. What is the truth? What do we want? What is it going to take to get us there? I blame Obama for not being at all clear about his (non) proposal. I blame the Dems for not putting forth a rational plan. I blame the Republicans for not putting forth a rational counter plan. I don't feel like we're getting anywhere! Hell, I'm as confused as anybody else. It is clearly something that (IMO) needs to be addressed. But the interested parties really know the game and they're playing it extremely well. I doubt we end up with anything truly worth a damn.

I wouldn't go to one of these townhall meetings to save my life. I'm pretty calm most of the time. But when people get silly and really start going off topic, I do lose what little patience I have. I can't imagine how I might react if I'd driven three hours to go to a health care townhall meeting, and some kook wants to talk about birth certificates and the 2nd Amendment. You guys might see ol' Jag on CNN Healine News. I'd be the big guy screaming "STFU, you slack jawed moron!!!"... with my hands clamped around some Gomer's neck. :D

Probably best that I just stay at home...

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

I don't disagree with that at all, Chuck. And a proper debate, based on facts and not baseless hysteria, is what will get us there. Do you agree?

As I've said, I've been a proud NRA member for most all of my adult life. I like my guns. I will not apologize for that. But it greatly concerns me when I see people "exercising their 2nd Amendment rights" in the middle of a townhall debate about health care. There are some true nuts running around out there who are just there just to be part of the show... or to create a show. And what concerns me is that one of these silly b#stards is going to eventually do something stupid, and life will get worse for all of us... especially people like me.

Let's rationally discuss the issue at hand. We, as a people, need to stop allowing ourselves to be played like puppets and sheep by the powers-that-be. What is the truth? What do we want? What is it going to take to get us there? I blame Obama for not being at all clear about his (non) proposal. I blame the Dems for not putting forth a rational plan. I blame the Republicans for not putting forth a rational counter plan. I don't feel like we're getting anywhere! Hell, I'm as confused as anybody else. It is clearly something that (IMO) needs to be addressed. But the interested parties really know the game and they're playing it extremely well. I doubt we end up with anything truly worth a damn.

I wouldn't go to one of these townhall meetings to save my life. I'm pretty calm most of the time. But when people get silly and really start going off topic, I do lose what little patience I have. I can't imagine how I might react if I'd driven three hours to go to a health care townhall meeting, and some kook wants to talk about birth certificates and the 2nd Amendment. You guys might see ol' Jag on CNN Healine News. I'd be the big guy screaming "STFU, you slack jawed moron!!!"... with my hands clamped around some Gomer's neck. :D

Probably best that I just stay at home...

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Totally agree with this. Isn't that what we are doing, having a rational debate? I think you are putting forward rational ideas, and I (hopefully) am countering with rational ideas as well.

This is the way Congress should work. But it doesn't. Throw the bums out, all of them, D or R I don't care.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Totally agree with this. Isn't that what we are doing, having a rational debate? I think you are putting forward rational ideas, and I (hopefully) am countering with rational ideas as well.

This is the way Congress should work. But it doesn't. Throw the bums out, all of them, D or R I don't care.

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Yeah, here we are. What I mean is the national debate though. I don't know about you, but I don't feel like any progress is really being made.

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Originally Posted by Starter

I think you meant suburban. An urban lifestyle works just fine what with public transportation or walking arounf the corner. Of course, it the walking part becomes an issue because of the intake volume then you're pretty much done anyway. :p

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yes suburban thanks for the help! :)

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I find it a bit rich for you to ask someone else, in your usual charmingly light-hearted fashion, whether they 'Understand now?' in a post that is so badly typed as that.

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U type on a blackberry then you can complain.