Rumored 2009 IC Schedule

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Originally Posted by Rex Monaco

ABC's races dropped 4.4% last year. They are only up 4% this year. So why aren't they higher?

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I don't know. But I am not the one assuming that it is because there are a large number of folks who used to watch ChampCar that are not watching any more. And why am I not assuming that? Because I realize it could just as easily be because a large number of the folks who watched ChampCar also watched the IRL all along and continue to watch it. I realize that we don't know, so I am not making statements/assumptions like:

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That the overall viewership is only up 17%, means that a not so small portion of CCWS fans have chosen to watch something else instead.

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Gary

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Originally Posted by Ken

my apologies gary.....I was posting on the fly from my phone

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OK, thanks!!! Now I can comprehend what it was you were saying. Sure I can see your rationale for concern. However I don't think there is any worry with it becoming CART. We will not have to contend with the public stock offering which in my mind was the death blow. Nor will we have to deal with the participants owning the series. (Note the PLURAL there. I realize we do have ONE participant who is the owner. But that doesn't create the same dynamic.) I think we have seen the business model of professional racing leagues run by committee (SCCA), those run as a publicly traded company (CART), run by three folks who didn't see eye to eye (the 3 amigos) and an autocratic model (the France family). As much as I despise dictatorships in governments, I am afraid it is the functional/viable model for racing series.

Gary

Ken, you see where the Biloxis and San Antonios have wound up, haven't you?

In the mid-'80s, CART was going to more road and street courses and Pat Patrick wrote a letter to his fellow car owners which drew some attention at the time, bemoaning the loss of the oval tradition. The CART board came out with a statement that it would "never be more than 50-50" between ovals and street/road. Then CART went right down that road to more road and street courses without ever missing a beat.

To me, "ovalcentricity" is what they have, 10-8 or more than half for '09. As I posted, I expect ovals to be added but I don't think we're going to see more than 20 races a season. If it goes differently, time will tell.

Ken, this is a discussion forum. But your discussion seems to consist of TG did something, it must be bad. You still have yet to define exactly what you think "ovalcentric" is. I have given you mine (more than half ovals). As soon as the IRL has 51% road/street courses then I'll join your side, but until then I say it is an ovalcentric series.

Am I worried that the league might slide down the path of CART because it passed on Vegas and Loudon? No. As many have said CC poisioned the Vegas market for a couple of years. And Loudon wasn't a great place a few years ago, so maybe the deal they were offering wasn't enough for the IRL to give them another shot. I haven't seen any of the details of that offer.

And as Gary has said pretty well, dictatorships seem to work out fairly well in motorsports even if you don't like the dictator (France, Bernie). So I'm willing to give TG some time with a unified series. Especially since Barnhardt seems to be doing a good job communicating with those involved

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Originally Posted by garyshell

And why am I not assuming that? Because I realize it could just as easily be because a large number of the folks who watched ChampCar also watched the IRL all along and continue to watch it. I realize that we don't know, so I am not making statements/assumptions like...

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You can label your assumption a realization, but I realize that it's just an assumption.

It's actually very safe to assume that a not so small pecentage of CCWS fans hated the IRL and will never return to the series while TG is in charge. Everyone realized this then and most realize it now.

But it is easier to figure out than we are making it out to be.

If we look at last years CCWS and IRL races that were broadcast during the same time time period, those are the sperate numbers of viewers for each series. So this years broadcast of the same IRL race should include those CCWS viewers from last year. Any difference is the number of CCWS that have not returned.

And I think it's safe to assume that number is much higher than the 4% ABC gained back after losing them last year.

I think the whole ratings debate shows how silly and just plain wrong the ratings system can be.... While it is all we have - I think it is hard to put much faith in the ratings numbers one way or the other - although it is safe to assume that a lot less people watch AOWR than NASCAR or stick and ball sports.....

Rex, the viewership of both was so small that you cannot honestly presume that those who hate(d) the IRL make much of a difference one way or the other.

The CW mentality is loud and nasty, but there are maybe a thousand or two, at the very most, who still carry the jihad to the extent that they aren't watching, IMO. When a couple hundred forum members there and a smattering of others at other forums proclaim they will boycott the IRL, it does not indicate to me that there is a major groundswell of public opinion against the IRL.

Most of the media, all of the teams and all of the sponsors are just happy it's one series now, so that easily overruns those who whine "I hate TG" on a chat forum. And probably watch anyway to take their shots when they can find them to take.

On another part of the viewership subject:

http://www.comcastnetworks.com/

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Originally Posted by Ken

the real scheduling question i have is.....and yes i'm posing it directly t you IC....but anyone feel free to chime in


How will/is TG going to make sure that the ICS doesn't fall victim to the same scheduleing problems as CART/CC and become a predomantly street coarse series...

now the easy answer is he just wont... well lets be honest....theres two factors at play here

1. the current ICS is closer to the old CART than 'the vision'

2. when an oval becomes no longer viable...homestead for example.... city goverments semm ready willing and able to pony up cash to get a race....

so how is TG and the IRL going to keep the IRL from becomeing 15 rc/sc v 5 ovals as the schedule progresses over the next 2 to 5 years

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Originally Posted by indycool

Well, Ken, time will tell, but I'll try:

1. TG is committed to ovalcentricity and the draws at most of the ovals have been adequate and/or growing and/or stable. No, Homestead ain't. The others are. And other ovals are waiting in the wings per SMI's statements. So, I don't believe that's going to come anytime soon.

2. After the Denvers and San Joses and Ansans and Zhuhais and Vegases and the cancellation at Phoenix, I doubt that many cities are jumping at the chance to have a street race. I doubt that many promoters are around that will take the chance on a street race without the right deal and sponsors and that's a pretty hard sell.

3. Pook, who mushroomed street racing in his career at Dover and CART, ain't a factor. KK, who tub-thumped it further, doesn't now. And I disagree that cities are clamaoring for races.

4. Just IMO, but TG seems to have a preference for real race tracks as opposed to street races.

5. It is slowly and grudgingly coming out that these street races don't draw what people were told they were drawing and tracks were only building 20-25,000 seats max and a number of them had few GA viewing areas. Well, if you're in Iowa and fill 25,000 permanent seats without the expense of track construction, that isn't any different than what was being drawn at street races with the added expenses involved.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Ken, this is a discussion forum. But your discussion seems to consist of TG did something, it must be bad. d

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your not paying attention.....above are the two posts that began this conversation....


and all 5 of IC responses are wrong