http://s5.postimg.org/ld57v185j/r_F.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
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http://s5.postimg.org/ld57v185j/r_F.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Criticism is needed in an open society but there’s a limit: the insult. Calling garbage dog to an ex WRC champion or autist to the world biggest car company chairman may appear as bold soundbites, but they’re nothing more than useless insults; like so many others produced by the forum troll.
On the other hand, it’s really puzzling to see genuine rally fans making so many negative prejudgments over TMR/Toyota WRC project.
What’s wrong in replacing a structure that wasn’t delivering their main goal, a Le Mans win, for other that was purposely developed having WRC in mind? What’s wrong on choosing an ex WRC champion, and succeed rally tuner, to manage that new structure? What’s wrong about creating the new structure over the manager’s existing rally base? What’s wrong about having their development driver on the team first year line up, probably in the company of a young promising driver? If we look in a reasonable and fair way we may actually see that there’s nothing wrong.
VW did a tremendous job setting a higher WRC competitive standard and new teams are automatically measured by it, but if others manus can’t immediately comply must we consider them a waste? Should we only value the qualities of the sport leader and reject their rival’s efforts? All competitors deserve to be praised; today’s underdog can become tomorrow’s champion.
Besides all that, a critic should have some achievements in the subject of critics, am I right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Great post Rally Power
nice post............
We should support them instead of criticising them always.
They are new and they might surprise all so keep calm and enjoy.
Support them !
Because it frustrates the hell out of Rally fans to see something being set-up which has so much history and pedigree with a huge element of amateurism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
VW set a benchmark by taking small steps with a plan, signing Ogier without a car and testing with the Fabia for a year.
Mini when it was set-up used Prodrive who had significant WRC experience and signed Sordo and Meeke. That car was also competitive but unfortunately there was no budget.
Hyundai signed Neuville and Sordo to develop the car and used Atkinson (history in the WRC), Hanninen (history in the WRC), and Paddon in the third car. They also assembled a team and stucture which had no partizan attachments, based in Germany with an International well funded team being pulled together.
The thing which bugs people about the Toyota approach is it is very hard to win the pole jump when you are an old, short and fat athlete using the wrong pole in the middle of winter.
It just doesn't feel set-up for success...
...and now we'd only need to know, what is this "huge element of amateurism".Quote:
Originally Posted by Grundo Farb
Ofcourse VW set a benchmark, but how come it's so hard to understand, that there was no "Ogier" for Tommi to sign? Tommi tried to sign Meeke first, didn't he? I guess that was amateurish as well then...
Don't know for sure what the mix is at Hyundai for example, but one third of the Toyota staff are not Finns... so yeah, "partizan attachments" indeed ;)
That's a good point, there really was no Ogier to sign.
Back in 2011/2012, there was only a Citroen, based around Loeb, and a poorly performing Ford team, there were no other WRC options for Ogier to move to.
The same can be said for a lot of the top design and engineering minds in rallying, most likely.
Now, as seen by Neuville and Meeke's decisions, there are already three teams that are making competitive offers in the market and, arguably, not enough top line drivers to sign for them.
Yeah, I agree, Toyota don't appear to be doing this in the most professional way and part of me wishes it was still TMG running it, but they've taken a brave leap at a difficult time to do so too.
To reinforce what I mean about the amateur structure where a bunch of mates are employed in a shed in the Finnish Forest with Partizan attachments - From the Hyundai Motorsport Website:Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
Established on 19 December 2012, Hyundai Motorsport GmbH (HMSG) is responsible for Hyundai’s global motorsport activities and primarily for its World Rally Championship programme.
Based in Alzenau, Germany, the company has engineered Hyundai’s return to the WRC with a bespoke team of skilled staff who are constantly developing the WRC-specification i20.
The facility, which covers 8,200m², is split into an office area (2,125m²) and a workshop space (5,878m²). This area is where around 200 employees develop and support Hyundai’s entry into the WRC.
Ideal premises to set-up a WRC team
The workshop is divided into 10 assembly bays. With an engine workshop, sub-assembly areas, electronics, body shop, stores, design office and administration area, it leaves nothing to be desired. The factory is also fully fitted and operational with quality control, engine dynamics and a suspension test bench - offering the ideal premises to set up a WRC team.
The Way To Go
Located in the heart of Europe (Rhine-Main area) holds logistical advantages
The facility is only 50 km from Frankfurt international airport, and its convenient motorway connection provides easy access to key suppliers within Continental Europe. Close to other Hyundai facilities such as Hyundai Motor Europe (HME) in Offenbach and Hyundai Motor Technical Centre (HMETC) in Ruesselsheim, Alzenau is the perfect location for Hyundai Motorsport.
And now from the TMG website:
THE HOME OF HIGH PERFORMANCE
Toyota Motorsport GmbH (TMG) is a unique high-performance testing and development facility located in the centre of Europe; in Cologne, Germany.
Specialising in high technology, TMG is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Toyota Motor Corporation and offers its services to external clients as well as members of the Toyota family.
Constructed to the highest standards with no compromise on quality or functionality, the spacious 30,000m² facility and its highly-skilled staff of around 200 offer a remarkable range of machines, facilities and expertise.
From its roots at the pinnacle of world motorsport, TMG has developed into a one-stop shop for specialised services, not just from the automotive world but from most sectors.
We offer individually-tailored solutions to enhance your next project, from full project fulfilment to specific services – all under one roof at TMG, the home of high performance.
Check out our varied and flexible solutions using the navigation bar above. Inside each section you will find a detailed description of our services, including the specifications of our specialist technology.
Now, I still can't get my head around how a company which already has a track record of success in the sport, with an existing facility that has all the requirements including a strategic location would set something else up in a shed in Finland...
If Toyoda wanted Tommi as team principal then fine but to duplicate everything is crazy.