The Ferrari thread !

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Two "rogue" employees took the initiative to make it obvious...

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One hopes that they don't become disillusioned and buy a tin of travel sweets :p :

(I'll get my coat :burnout: )

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Is it your turn to clean the toilet , Davey ?

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These threads drive me round the bend...

:p

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Let me make it clear .

I would have fired Felipe on the spot .
I would have told him to pit and get out of my car .

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Well, they've got Luca Badoer and Giancarlo to capably stand in..........


....you might well be onto something there........

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

These threads drive me round the bend...

:p

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I'm all, ahem, aflush, with laughter.......

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

His employer told his engineer exactly what to say to him .
The way he delivered the message was what got them in trouble .

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On the forth time of asking maybe, how did he sound on the previous occasions? We don't know do we?

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

To assume that anyone's employer should have the right to ask any employee to do as asked is not really a stretch , is it ?
Sign up , do the job , get a paycheque .
The choice is clear .

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Employment law sees the employer with surprisingly few ways to hold the upper ground in a dispute. If asked to leave, Massa could make a rather large sum out of Ferrari and make them look rather stupid.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

And , the choice was clear for Felipe , and for Smedley .
They both did as told , but did not do it subtly enough to escape sanction .

Massa did what he was told , or , more correctly , made the logical decision , when told the situation .
He didn't like it , and needed to be told three times .
When finally he relented , and did as his employer expected , he and his engineer made it obvious .

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No matter how he slowed, your average punter would smell the rat.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

The toilet to which I referred earlier , I own . I have employees in the restaurant who I could ask to do it always , but I take my turn .
And , there is no complaint .

Recently , I had an employee who wouldn't wash the toilet . Her actions disrupted the whole apple cart , as others had to fill in , and do that part of her job , the most disgusting part .
She doesn't work for me any more .

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Well, that saved a pay packet, and despite the loss, the bog still shines, I bet? If your ex employee had any nouse, a claim for either unfair or constructive dismissal would have been options to her, and she is likely to have won.....

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Originally Posted by henners88

Our Italian friends gave us the basis for a language, whereas we have developed in a country where holding a door for someone requires a thank you. (Sorry something which I noticed on a recent trip to Rome along with the concept of queueing not quite being understood lol) :p

Chill out.. :s mokin:

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I'm not the least bit worked up about any of this.
Every culture I've ever known of has an upside that out-weighs it's down side. Viva la difference. I'm old enough to remember when you respected people in my country until they gave you a damn good reason not to.
My how things have changed.
Here is an example:

It was about 12 years ago I lived on a pretty steep windy narrow street in suburban uptown San Diego. I had gotten a steal on a '56 Ford F100 with a custom Callen Camper Shell. Needless to say it was a lot of weight for the inline six but it was a 3 speed on the tree and 1st was just a granny gear. Its positive function was for hauling large loads uphill or pulling tree stumps. I never used it and down shifting into it was a pretty dodgy endeavor.
One day I was rolling down my street in second. I saw a small girl about 6 years old stand in the middle of the street with one hand in the air. It was very close to everything I could do to stop short of her or plough someone’s yard. As I got closer I realized that she was just standing there giving me the finger. I backed up to her and said in a firm but non threatening way:
"What the hell do you think you're doing"? Out from a house flies her mother who proceeded to try to chastise me. She Ejaculated ( :s ailor :) "You can't talk to my daughter that way". I said "she almost got killed" I'm reporting this to the police. As I drove away I heard a couple choice insults and just scratched my head.
And I left the authorities out of it.

As I see it flando is a very fast driver when he is the clear no 1 in a team, when not he feels insecure and does a lot of mistakes a bit like MS.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

It is , indeed , Davey .

But , don't forget that the original intention was to have them for free .

Two "rogue" employees took the initiative to make it obvious , and gain sympathy for the "hard done by" driver , causing the team to be fined and reprimanded .

The "free pass" is what you get when you don't make it obvious .
And , "obvious" seems to mean tone of voice , "sorry" , and a crowd of fans yelling about team orders being banned , despite seeing it , in the same words , many times , even this year .

Heikki knew what his team wanted , and didn't complain , and was lauded for his team thinking . And this , being honourable in a secondary role , is what being the devoted number two should be all about .
That's what Dennis was all gushy about .

Gilles did his time as number two , and nobody seems to mind . And some think it was the disturbance of his own number two passing him that lead him to the distraction that contributed to his demise .

When it's my turn to wash the toilet , I wash the toilet , and I don't complain . I just wash the thing the best way I know how , and perform the best job I can .

Smedley and Massa should be on toilet duty for a long time to make up for this .
Then , the pi$$y faces would fit .

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:up:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Let me make it clear .

I would have fired Felipe on the spot .
I would have told him to pit and get out of my car .

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:up:

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

You're like the wind, one never knows which way it blows.

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Probably not. I support many teams and drivers and that's why people are confused. Also in the past I have changed my favorite teams and drivers. So let me say something clear.
McLaren did the right thing in that race, in 2008. Lewis needed that points. Heikki was slow and needed to get out of the way. So Ron did the sensible thing. He informed him of the situation, i.e. he ordered him to be a good team player.
This probably costed the only victory Piquet could have won in his career.
One would argue that he didn't deserve it, but on the other hand Lewis was LET by Kovalainen to overtake him and than proceeded to do what he did. All power to him and his team. All power to all his fans who think that this is the right way. I agree with them.
But in my opinion Ferrari also did the right thing, this year and in 1999, when Salo let Irvine to win. This is a championship at stake. At the 2010 race Massa was losing time to Vettel, was not able to get his tyres to work and was threatening a 1-2 result and was costing his teammate points. Points which may be prescious at the end of the season. So he let him win, as he was too informed, like Heikki, about what is going on and what is important for the team.
To coin always has two sides and nothing is black and white, but what Ferrari did is not really different to what McLaren did. The circumstances are different, but the reasoning is the same. One teammate has to be sacrificed for the greater good of the team. For the chances of the team leader.
For Massa, the stakes were higher ofcourse, and for Salo in 1999, they were brutal, he lost his one and only chance. But the order, the message, the information, is the same and you have to be a fanboy to deny it.
Not that there is something wrong to be a fanboy. But when a whole organization like the FIA acts because of fanboys and because of journos from certain country, who turn a blind eye for similar actions of the team from their country, now there is something wrong in my opinion.
All of this is IMO and in no way diminish the respect I feel for the involved teams and their passionate fans.