Toyota could join the WRC, as the TTE facilities are quite big. I don't think they will join the WRC. It seems as if LeMans is their future.
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Toyota could join the WRC, as the TTE facilities are quite big. I don't think they will join the WRC. It seems as if LeMans is their future.
Do you have a source? I can't find it on http://www.kevinabbring.com and http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com also.Quote:
Originally Posted by mousti
There`s an article in rallye-magazin that Toyota & Hyundai is coming to WRC, but no hard facts: rallye-magazin1
Also Kevin Abbring & young Sepp Wiegand in VW Skoda for UK: rallye-magazin2
Just last week i heard that Toyota went for other sports.
Yes it is! http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com...st=588&id=4734Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Great! Another dutchman drive for Volkswagen
As I understand Toyota is up for both, because WRC has exposure for almost the whole year, whereas Le Mans is just a one race horse, at least globaly recognised and on paar with WRC, other sportscar events are lower profile than WRC.
Well, from next year the Le Mans 24 Hours will be the crucial point in the Endurance World Championship, which will spread the exposure for almost the whole year too...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy
The German firm's decision not to test any British drivers had been telegraphed after motorsport director Kris Nissen admitted he could see nobody from Britain worthy of a VW run on their home round of the World Rally Championship.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95521
something not going right at vw imho....
NotBritish, but here in Ireland we have a two time BRC champion, who beat Craig Breen in his s2000 in a horrible gp n Subaru n14. Elfyn Evans or David Bogie might have bee equally good choices, but if VW wanted someone from the British Isles to impress them, Keith Cronin was the man to do it. A reckless decision from a team which clearly only wants salesmen on wheels from large markets. Think of what it would have done for the profile of the sport to have David Bogie and Keith Cronin in the two cars, but alas this was-only ever a pipe dream.
I think Irishman Breen has a contract with M-sport. He works still at Dovenby Hall?Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Weird choices...
Maybe Abring has some future, but definitely it is too early for Wiegand.
I am starting to be skeptical about Kris Nissen´s ability to lead the WRC team. Definitely there would have been many other drivers available like Hayden Paddon or Jarkko Nikara (both of them would have deserved the opportunity)...
With Wiegand it's definitely not earlier than with Ogier in 2007 when Citroën brought him from local Peugeot XS Cup. Sometimes You have to gamble if You want to find the diamond ;)
i didn t mean Abring...Quote:
Originally Posted by rp
Its not quite the same with Ogier.Wiegand at 1st day at France was on par with Cerny.In every ss was from 10 to 20 sec slower from the r2 winner.He finished day 1 4min 12 sec behind fastest r2 fiesta.At day 2 was 7 minutes behind fastest fiesta with same pace at ss as day 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I really stragle to see any potential from this guy.
In his home rally the same situation.
Ogier wasn t 20-30 sec slower from guys with same car before ffsa/citroen grab him. ;)
same ''choices'' vw had do when they were competed at wrc with golf g60 4x4.Guess the results.
Ok these drivers are not the drivers are going to be the official polo crews,but i really can t find ANY logic in these choices....
VW tries hard to find the best German driver. That's all. So, they try almost all the available young German drivers.
did you see somebody fast from Germany the last 20 years? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by tolis
I'm living in the same city as him, and his Dads business is down the road from where I am living. From what I know, he is working for the family business, as he is regularly at the local motor club meetings. That would be a difficult commute from Cumbria.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy
you dont know anything about wiegand, dont judge him for the results he showed at the academy rallyes(witch werent so special, i admit that, had expected a bit more too. but he also had technical problems and i´m not sure if his funding allowed him to really push, still not so special results, shure). he only did 1 rallye in the fiesta before germany. before he only drove a lupo gti and a swift n2. it is his first season in rallyeing...last year he drove 3 or 4 small rallyes in germany and now has driven 19 rallyes in his life ever, most of them had under 150 ss km, some even only 35 km. so not mutch experience. and here in germany he had extremely good results, beating up a lot of drivers in his group n swift. also in french swift cup he set all besttimes on 2nd day at ralyle rouergue, and even was faster then the twingo r1 cup drivers on some stages. he almost always finished first in his class this year: http://www.seppwiegand.com/erfolge.html he already is faster or equally fast as riedemann, who has mutch, mutch more experience. its the first german driver formany years who has not this "main aim is to finish and get experience, bla bla bla" ability, he wants to push.
before he did motocross, was european champion in cross country and so on...
so for me he´s the best young talented driver germany has to offer at the moment. and i´m really happy that vw also recognized this. if they want a german, they should choose him, give him a drive in swrc with maximum attack allowed and maybe german rallye championchip or french, czech or what ever in the fabia, let him take part at the polo tests and then if he proves to be good, give him a drive in the wrc 2013 in the vw b team. maybe 2014 he´s on top then...
so, i´m very happy with vw´s choise(maybe it´s because im german, shure, but finnish fans also seemed to be happy with lindroos, witch almost noone had ever heard from before). but i also share tommeke_B´s opinion, they should have let wiegand drive in spain instead of riedemann and give the wales drive to someone else. what i dont really understand is, why they give riedemann that 2nd drive. it´s not that i dont like him or so, but he had his chance this year...
I'd agree with an earlier poster who has doubts about VW Motorsport boss Kris Nissen; he's hardly Dr Ulrich of Audi is he? If VW want to succeed, they may need to get a new Motorsport boss.
VW have run local drivers in Finland, Germany & Spain. So why not GB? Abbring is a good driver, so I can see the sense in that, but the other driver has only been Rallying for a short period of time. You can't tell me he's better than some of the British/ Irish youngsters.....
you dont know anything about wiegand, dont judge him for the results he showed at the academy rallyes(witch werent so special, i admit that, had expected a bit more too. but he also had technical problems and i´m not sure if his funding allowed him to really push, still not so special results, shure). he only did 1 rallye in the fiesta before germany. before he only drove a lupo gti and a swift n2. it is his first season in rallyeing...last year he drove 3 or 4 small rallyes in germany and now has driven 19 rallyes in his life ever, most of them had under 150 ss km, some even only 35 km. so not mutch experience. and here in germany he had extremely good results, beating up a lot of drivers in his group n swift. also in french swift cup he set all besttimes on 2nd day at ralyle rouergue, and even was faster then the twingo r1 cup drivers on some stages. he almost always finished first in his class this year: http://www.seppwiegand.com/erfolge.html he already is faster or equally fast as riedemann, who has mutch, mutch more experience. its the first german driver formany years who has not this "main aim is to finish and get experience, bla bla bla" ability, he wants to push.
before he did motocross, was european champion in cross country and so on...
so for me he´s the best young talented driver germany has to offer at the moment. and i´m really happy that vw also recognized this. if they want a german, they should choose him, give him a drive in swrc with maximum attack allowed and maybe german rallye championchip or french, czech or what ever in the fabia, let him take part at the polo tests and then if he proves to be good, give him a drive in the wrc 2013 in the vw b team. maybe 2014 he´s on top then...
so, i´m very happy with vw´s choise(maybe it´s because im german, shure, but finnish fans also seemed to be happy with lindroos, witch almost noone had ever heard from before). but i also share tommeke_B´s opinion, they should have let wiegand drive in spain instead of riedemann and give the wales drive to someone else. what i dont really understand is, why they give riedemann that 2nd drive. it´s not that i dont like him or so, but he had his chance this year...
I can think of at least two who go around in circles a lot :DQuote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Yeah, Timo Bernhard & Mike Rockenfeller...... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by tfp
It's too harsh to compare first WRC start of Wiegand and Ogier. One run private R2 car with probably very little funding and testing. The other run full factory S1600 after several months of testing with factory team.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
The logic is there. They try to find German driver who may be fast in the future because there is no-one fast enough in present. Simple as that. Believe me that what they want to see is not same what You can see from results, it's about much more things like cooperation with team, feedback from car, ability to improve etc.
In the end it's their money and it's not one of the two main seats in the team so what is wrong with that? Instead of being happy that there is finally a works team which gives chance to young drivers to drive their third car there is still some "what a stupid choice" blabala.
And last thing... Judging purely by numbers in results from one or two events is often very inaccurate because You miss many important information behind those times. Just as an example with drive of Černý in France which You picked up. You don't know that there were problems with crankshaft sensor all rally...
:D That wasnt who I was thinking, but, yeah, the Endurance drivers aswel ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Heinrich von Schnellfahrer, also known as the speed phenomenon with monokkel and glasseye??? sorry that was 1975...Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Current lack of top German rally driver is in my opinion given mostly by poor image of rallying in Germany overall. There is no shortage of great circuit German drivers and in the past there were rally drivers as well. A country of 80 million people simply must have enough talents. They only need to do the "right" motorsport.
i totally agree to all what mirek said! ;)
I'd agree, sooner or later they must find one who is a world beater. However, the sport has never enjoyed a good image in Germany, summed up by BMW not liking their cars going Rallying when Prodrive got hold of one in the late 80's. Audi even claim their greatest Motorsport achievements have been at Le Mans.....and not with the Quattro in the WRC.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
but they use every chance to show off with it ;) pretty sanctimonious. like with that new ugly a1:Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
http://www.techfieber.de/images/wp-c...hersee-424.jpg
or in this advertising:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU7omDxkhEc
Mirek i mean before s1600 season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I know what are they looking for.Iam just not sure if they are doing it the right way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
All these things cant be with a worthable driver?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Of course i am happy they are giving chances to young drivers.I ll prefere to have some potential,that i said.I didn t said about stupid choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
So Cerny with crankshaft problems was faster than Wiegand ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
[quote="AndyRAC"]I'd agree, sooner or later they must find one who is a world beater. However, the sport has never enjoyed a good image in Germany, summed up by BMW not liking their cars going Rallying when Prodrive got hold of one in the late 80's. Audi even claim their greatest Motorsport achievements have been at Le Mans.....and not with the Quattro in the WRC.....[/QUOTE]
:s mokin:
Beating one other manufacturer in Lemans is better than their 1984 wrc season? And pioneering 4wd road cars for years to come....They need to take a closer look at their achievements!
I'm sure you would have been absolutely delighted if a random, completely unproven UK youngster had been given the VW seat on WRC Germany ahead of several deserving local youngsters...Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstar
So you think with these choices they try to find the German Ogier? Are they choices from a team that comes to wrc to win?Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstar
What was the potential of these twingo drivers? You mean that when you are faster or equal with Riedemann you can be choosed for wrc?Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstar
Rossi was world champion in mot gp for years.Kimi was F1 champion.Will you choose them for a works wrc team?Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstar
Being talented in Germany rallying is not enough because the rallying is at very low level.Italy a country with good drivers,and a very high level in their championship.Can you pick up your choose for a works team?It is not easy to do it in Italy......Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstar
Lindroos was fighting with Salo and Ketooma,best Fin drivers last years at Fin Championship with good results.Wiegand with who was fighting in Germany?Totaly different potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstar
I think that you have missed something about the top level at wrc.Imho they had to have already choosed 1 or 2 drivers with serious potential and gain experiences even with skoda s2000 at all rallies of wrc.With one year is not enough,specially if at your only year of testing you have do the wrong choice.
I am talking about a team that wants to win Citroen-Ford-Mini.
you guys are pretty polemic i must say, but ok...
i never said he´s world champion now, and also never said he´s going to be it ever. i never said they should pick him for the works cars, i said B team. i did not say beating riedemann or some french twingo guys make´s you best driver in the world. i also did not say being good motocross driver makes you wrc champion and i never said being good in germany means being good in the world, i´m not stupid! (competition level in germany is very low.) and i also said that i dont like the choise of giving riedemann a 2nd chance and instead they should have let wiegand drive in spain.
i only wanted to show you that he has very little experience and therefore is already pretty good, thats why i was telling you all this stuff.
and the most important part of my post, that said it all was this:
so, to say it again: IF they want a german(what they obviously want), who else to choose? vw shurely wont take someone like wiegand for the 1st and 2nd car. but for a 3rd or 4th car, why not...if you want a german, you will have to build up one, thats it...Quote:
so for me he´s the best young talented driver germany has to offer at the moment. and i´m really happy that vw also recognized this. if they want a german, they should choose him, give him a drive in swrc with maximum attack allowed and maybe german rallye championchip or french, czech or what ever in the fabia, let him take part at the polo tests and then if he proves to be good, give him a drive in the wrc 2013 in the vw b team. maybe 2014 he´s on top then...
and in the end: it´s only a test! vw will shurely also have a look on lots of other drivers during next year´s testing season.
IS the Wiegand of the discussion on this vid ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whbDx9w4eMU
So, Dimviii, pick one name of German driver for VW. No talking about abilities such driver should have because we all know them. Give us just one single name.
That is what i am saying Mirek.Unfortunately there is no one at current time.Its difficult to choose for even a B team a driver,where the championship(German) is so weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Also i believe that is too late.
Thats why i am saying that vw ''tactics'' reminds me their last aproach at wrc.
Some things are impossible to do,regardless of how much money you spend.
So you have to understant it,except if your aim is to be just another wrc entry.
Mirek really you think that giving to a rookie 2-3 free drives with a car that he haven t drive,you can have any conclusions?
Just think if Latvala,Tanak,Hanninen had given just 2-3 free drives if you had choose them with all their offs at their start.
I mean that you have to choose 1-2 drivers and give them the oportunity for at least a year.How you wil see the progress in rallies that they haven t see at all,with a car he hasn t drive,and just so little rally km in his pocket?
Just giving to 10 different drivers free drives,with most of these drivers with just one rally,it is dangerous to don t see even the good potential of a driver.
No mate,honestly not polemic at all.Feel free to discuss,that is the reason of forums. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstar
In their situation it's not bad solution in my opinion. They have to build the new driver from almost no-one. And in that zero starting status You can base Your choice on short term co-operation. You are talking about giving him let's say at least a year. But that is exactly what they are going to do. The third seat is meant for that. But first they need to choose the one to give this opportunity. For sure it's better way to choose this one by this way than to play dice. After all they can't run ten cars with potential drivers for whole season to make You happy ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
yes it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeakiwi
or here for example with the lupo ;)
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...66413826_n.jpg
but still your discussion style is polemic :p but no problem mate, im not pissed or so, hope you are also not.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii