Rally Wrc Mexicooo 2016

"But Penasse believes Neuville can emulate Kris Meeke's 2015 achievement on next month's Rally Argentina round and take a surprise win - helped by starting eighth on the road."

I don't know but i feel like it was more due to all the VW's retiring... Road position doesn't matter so much in Argentina as it stays sandy longer.

Good job by Gorban getting one point with Mini. Hopefully that means he gets priority 1 for the coming events so he doesn't have to start behind all the WRC2 and WRC3 runners.

Paddon answers questions from fans

https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon?lang=el

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Originally Posted by dimviii

Paddon answers questions from fans

https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon?lang=el

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This one's for Lundefaret
https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/sta...35021714604032

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Originally Posted by AL14

This one's for Lundefaret
https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/sta...35021714604032

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;)

Mads won stages in Mexico in 2014 & 2015...

So is he slow ? Is it the Fiesta ? Or is he driving to maximise the chance of taking points ?

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Originally Posted by SubaruNorway

"But Penasse believes Neuville can emulate Kris Meeke's 2015 achievement on next month's Rally Argentina round and take a surprise win - helped by starting eighth on the road."

I don't know but i feel like it was more due to all the VW's retiring... Road position doesn't matter so much in Argentina as it stays sandy longer.

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Haha yeah that fact has been slightly overlooked hasn't it. Road position had nothing to do with that Meeke win but they get Thierry what he needs to hear I guess.

Crashing while under Rally2 is the cardinal sin though - I can see why they are miffed.

mads is nothing, he goes, we cheer, same like hirvonen.

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Originally Posted by Simmi

Crashing while under Rally2 is the cardinal sin though - I can see why they are miffed.

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Knocking the car around on shakedowns or on test days while trying to set a better time than your team mates rather than focusing on the true task at hand does not help either.
Will be very interesting to see what role he plays once they are back in Europe, could be a lot less expensive just to pay him to sit on the bank and watch.

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Originally Posted by dimviii

is it so hard to accept that Mads has no wining capabilities? never was able to win.Still the same after so many years at wrc.No progress at all.
Fiesta has nothing to do with it,as Kubica had show many times with stage wins against Ogier and Loeb with Polo and ds3,championship wining cars last decade.
Latvala with fiesta when was at his good days(and mind) had won straight and square Loeb at gravel rallies.

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But, please, I´m just arguing against those who says he is slow. That isn´t true. And the Fiesta is not on level with VW. And Kubica winning stages doesn´t say anything about status.
Don´t misunderstand what my broken english trying to explain.

Neuville is not listening to co-driver's notes during the stages and is being arrogant and continues to watch onboard footage to better his driving alone, in his hotel room on hours end which isn't working and Gilsoul is becoming annoyed with Neuville on his attitude. So the mistakes are really Neuville's. Don't be surprised if they split or see tension arise now after Mexico. You could clearly see it in Mexico.

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Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1

The Mexican podium is the best!

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...a5c97c1b09.jpg

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That's excellent! Too many WRC rallies have a podium ceremony which is only viewable by VIP's and media, while the fans are mostly shut out. It's great to see a rally including the fans in the ceremony.

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Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1

Neuville is not listening to co-driver's notes during the stages and is being arrogant and continues to watch onboard footage to better his driving alone, in his hotel room on hours end which isn't working and Gilsoul is becoming annoyed with Neuville on his attitude. So the mistakes are really Neuville's. Don't be surprised if they split or see tension arise now after Mexico. You could clearly see it in Mexico.

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He should also study what happened with his compatriot who had the same attitude/arrogance.

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Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1

Neuville is not listening to co-driver's notes during the stages and is being arrogant and continues to watch onboard footage to better his driving alone, in his hotel room on hours end which isn't working and Gilsoul is becoming annoyed with Neuville on his attitude. So the mistakes are really Neuville's. Don't be surprised if they split or see tension arise now after Mexico. You could clearly see it in Mexico.

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How is it possible to know those details?about not hearing the pace notes i think this is too much!!

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Originally Posted by Leon

He should also study what happened with his compatriot who had the same attitude/arrogance.

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I wrote something similar some pages back, at the moment Neuville is looking more and more like Duval 2

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Originally Posted by nafpaktos

How is it possible to know those details?about not hearing the pace notes i think this is too much!!

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probably form the same source that tipped him about Ogiers tension with VW management, that is why Ogier drives for Citroen the last 2 years.

He is just a kid, do not pay too much attention.

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Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1

Neuville is not listening to co-driver's notes during the stages and is being arrogant and continues to watch onboard footage to better his driving alone, in his hotel room on hours end which isn't working and Gilsoul is becoming annoyed with Neuville on his attitude. So the mistakes are really Neuville's. Don't be surprised if they split or see tension arise now after Mexico. You could clearly see it in Mexico.

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Yes sure, he's not listening to the notes. Yet he still manages to set stage-times within seconds of the top drivers... Do you know what rallying is? I recommend you to drive some proper stages yourself, once, or twice, or 10 times, and then still imagine that you can drive within seconds of the world's best without any notes. Sure there could be some tensions between Neuville and Gilsoul, it's normal regarding the situation they're in, but your version is going way too far... ;)

You've posted plenty of bullshit (only now and then), I think your "sources" are laughing behind your back. I'm already curious for the next joke they're going to make you believe. :)

LOL, but no one is considering that the notes are dictated by Neuville himself during recce. If this is true it means Neuville is not listening to himself. It does not make any sense.

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

But, please, I´m just arguing against those who says he is slow. That isn´t true. And the Fiesta is not on level with VW. And Kubica winning stages doesn´t say anything about status.
Don´t misunderstand what my broken english trying to explain.

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Pelle lilla I don't know if I buy the idea that the Fiesta is significantly slower.. I think we must watch ourselves again thinking any of the tip tip ytterst top factory cars are waaaaaaaaaaaaay faster than the next..
Remember just a while ago "everybody" says "Citroen are all finito..the car have no development since Loeb left and the car IS TOO SLOW"

Then Loeb simply hops in and POOF! instant top times..

But wait, ''everybody said''?

what I'm saying is there IS a driver in the car, too...

And those norsk guttar are good, but I don't know if they have the last bit of gnista eller flinta eller inte vet jag

Och det visas i att dom är bråkdelar av sekunder bakom.

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Pelle lilla I don't know if I buy the idea that the Fiesta is significantly slower.. I think we must watch ourselves again thinking any of the tip tip ytterst top factory cars are waaaaaaaaaaaaay faster than the next..
Remember just a while ago "everybody" says "Citroen are all finito..the car have no development since Loeb left and the car IS TOO SLOW"

Then Loeb simply hops in and POOF! instant top times..

But wait, ''everybody said''?

what I'm saying is there IS a driver in the car, too...

And those norsk guttar are good, but I don't know if they have the last bit of gnista eller flinta eller inte vet jag

Och det visas i att dom är bråkdelar av sekunder bakom.

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Visst! But are they slow? Are you slow winning stages in WRC events? I´m reacting on those who criticices Mads being slow, nothing else. Tenths, seconds, what they depends on? - well - many factors I believe.
Btw, how things where one or few years ago or even 6 months, doesn´t give much references of current situation technicalwise.

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

Visst! But are they slow? Are you slow winning stages in WRC events? I´m reacting on those who criticices Mads being slow, nothing else. Tenths, seconds, what they depends on? - well - many factors I believe.
Btw, how things where one or few years ago or even 6 months, doesn´t give much references of current situation technicalwise.

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Yeah but you know me..I'm really a cross-idiot in the deepest part of what passes for brains...We don't obesses to the same degree as car guys about technical "end-of-the-world" larvigheter..

Example


Se how Mats Jonsson in Stig Blomqvists old 1997 spec Whirled Rally Car Escort Cosworth just a few years ago makes times good for 4th --5th 6th if he was in WRC Sweden insted of the SM rally behind..
Ancient car......17 years behind
Ancient guy!

Mere seconds behind..

So many tiny factors I say the biggest is between the ears.. Drive, krut i magen, råg i ryggen because the technical spec is so strictly controlled in so many ways regarding the engines.. so i discount the engines...there's a whole lot of other things after the motor

And there's the internat PUSH..
Don't want to guess too much but those guttar have pretty nice life if they never lift a finger to get in a car again, right? It's in a way just fun for them..another couple of fractions of second is not going to change their lives.. Push internally is the hardest factor to weigh...
this was pretty clear in my sport when even though it is multiple factors more pysically demanding, routinely you see guys who don't LOOK all full of muscles beat guys who were...there was something pushing harder inside their head and that made the decisive difference...

Understand what you mean. Still it´s competition on highest rally level in WRC. And that means differences measured in tenths or few seconds means either driver or cars play a role.
The thing some guys has a golden spoon in their mouths doesn´t mean they compete cruising.
Still my main issue is: Is Mads slow?
Mats Jonsson hasn´t had any competiton in SRC for years. So comparing isn´t fair.

Så där John. Nu fick du nåt att bita i... ;)

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Se how Mats Jonsson in Stig Blomqvists old 1997 spec Whirled Rally Car Escort Cosworth just a few years ago makes times good for 4th --5th 6th if he was in WRC Sweden insted of the SM rally behind..
Ancient car......17 years behind
Ancient guy!

Mere seconds behind..

...

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This tale is quite often retold on here, I'd love to know more about it. No disrespect to Mats but he alone doesn't account for this difference, does anyone know was the restrictor size the same for both? And what about tyres?

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

Understand what you mean. Still it´s competition on highest rally level in WRC. And that means differences measured in tenths or few seconds means either driver or cars play a role.
The thing some guys has a golden spoon in their mouths doesn´t mean they compete cruising.
Still my main issue is: Is Mads slow?
Mats Jonsson hasn´t had any competiton in SRC for years. So comparing isn´t fair.

Så där John. Nu fick du nåt att bita i... ;)

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Vänta nu..

First yeah I agree, they aren't ''just cruising''... It would be silly to suggest that..who did?

But but but..
Re Mats Jonsson and the WRC ex Blomqvist Escort rapport from over the week end:

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Another snow victory for Rådström

Rally Vännäs - the last winter rally for this year in the Swedish Rally Championship - was held this weekend in Vännäs, native village for Thomas Rådström, former WRC-driver in the Citroën team. He was co-driven by Denis Giraudet and they had no problems to win this round of the championship in their Olsbergs Toyota Corolla WRC.
- In spite of a repeating malfunction of the engine, causing o loss of about 50 hps many times, we had no real problems to take the win, Thomas Rådström said at the ramp.


Behind Rådström there was a tough fight between Mats Jonsson, Ford Escort WRC, and Mats Thorszelius, Toyota Corolla WRC. Thorszelius was the luckiest of the two and finished second, 51,4 seconds behind Rådström, but only 2 seconds ahead of Jonsson at the third place.

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We speaking of the same Jonsson? Cause THAT is the one I'm referring to..He must be 60 (just checked 59)
Gammalt är bäst


Thorzelius grabben, isn't he almost neighbor to you? almost? Just a couple of mil ditåt ----->:D

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Originally Posted by Nornbugger

This tale is quite often retold on here, I'd love to know more about it. No disrespect to Mats but he alone doesn't account for this difference, does anyone know was the restrictor size the same for both? And what about tyres?

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Ok hold on, I need tea and a ciggie, Iäll dig it up and get right back.
It was the same year that there were a couple of National 2wd Golf and a Volvo 940 beating Ken Blocks stage times---in the latest spec "best car money can buy" (because any better and they give YOU money!) Ford Focus.

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Pelle lilla I don't know if I buy the idea that the Fiesta is significantly slower.. I think we must watch ourselves again thinking any of the tip tip ytterst top factory cars are waaaaaaaaaaaaay faster than the next..
Remember just a while ago "everybody" says "Citroen are all finito..the car have no development since Loeb left and the car IS TOO SLOW"

Then Loeb simply hops in and POOF! instant top times..

But wait, ''everybody said''?

what I'm saying is there IS a driver in the car, too...

And those norsk guttar are good, but I don't know if they have the last bit of gnista eller flinta eller inte vet jag

Och det visas i att dom är bråkdelar av sekunder bakom.

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i dont understand all of what you wrote, but i agree with the part about citroen and loeb's one off return....and to some extent now reflected via meeke

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Originally Posted by gorganl2000

i dont understand all of what you wrote, but i agree with the part about citroen and loeb's one off return....and to some extent now reflected via meeke

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Yeah I have to get up at 0530 to drive wifey dear to the train and with only 1/2 cup of tea and 1/2 cigarette my poor old brain isn't firing on all cylinders...Per is Swedish and that was my language in motorsports so Iäm writing to him so it's all his fault..At least we speak same regional dialect so at least he understands...

You should see what happens if I write in Österbotten Finland-svensk, then even he have problems

I think this might be the problem area:

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And those norsk guttar are good, but I don't know if they have the last bit of gnista eller flinta eller inte vet jag

Och det visas i att dom är bråkdelar av sekunder bakom.

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Norsk guttar= "norwegian guys" and gnista = spark (iskra? In Russian) and flinta= flint and 'inte vet jag' is "I don't know"..

And damn whole last line = "and this is shown in that they are fractions of a second behind."

Basically agreeing that the Norski guys are fast but slightly disagreeing that the Fords are "not fast enough".

Of course Pelle is an old Opel rally man and I drove Saab with the mighty V4 which is Ford so we genetically have to disagree (even if I built some really excellent Opels for friends)

Maybe if I ask him to find me Opel 2,2 crank he will forgive me being Ford/Saab guy.:eek:

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Ok hold on, I need tea and a ciggie, Iäll dig it up and get right back.
It was the same year that there were a couple of National 2wd Golf and a Volvo 940 beating Ken Blocks stage times---in the latest spec "best car money can buy" (because any better and they give YOU money!) Ford Focus.

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Maybe here for Block SS times
http://www.ewrc-results.com/driver_i...ly-Sweden-2011

Maybe here for Mats
http://www.raceconsulting.com/rally/...=Trimmat%204WD

SS8/9/10/11

2wd National "Grupp H"
http://www.raceconsulting.com/rally/...=Trimmat%202WD


More later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Yeah I have to get up at 0530 to drive wifey dear to the train and with only 1/2 cup of tea and 1/2 cigarette my poor old brain isn't firing on all cylinders...Per is Swedish and that was my language in motorsports so Iäm writing to him so it's all his fault..At least we speak same regional dialect so at least he understands...

You should see what happens if I write in Österbotten Finland-svensk, then even he have problems

I think this might be the problem area:


Norsk guttar= "norwegian guys" and gnista = spark (iskra? In Russian) and flinta= flint and 'inte vet jag' is "I don't know"..

And damn whole last line = "and this is shown in that they are fractions of a second behind."

Basically agreeing that the Norski guys are fast but slightly disagreeing that the Fords are "not fast enough".

Of course Pelle is an old Opel rally man and I drove Saab with the mighty V4 which is Ford so we genetically have to disagree (even if I built some really excellent Opels for friends)

Maybe if I ask him to find me Opel 2,2 crank he will forgive me being Ford/Saab guy.:eek:

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I´m a truly Ford fan as well (in rallying that is) else there is a tale "Aldrig en Ford på min gård" and that rule concerns my private cars. Opel as you say is a favourite having had maybe 20 different models since 1972, like Kadett Sprint, Asconas (B) maybe 7-8, Omegas, Rekord and now for the time being one Astra and one Corsa (and BMW also). Back in 1976 I put together a Std B V4 engine (silvermotorn with Solex doubleport carb original) at my brother which after was raced maybe 20 rallies with no problem...

So far where I stand. My judgement of Fiesta is oc subjective, but some drivers seems to agree as well.

Btw Rådström och Mats Jonsson wasn´t that maybe ten years ago...? Not sure myself anymore.

Per, I struggle to read the whole argument, I admit, but I'm quite sure that differences between drivers on WRC level are reasonably bigger than differences between cars. You know You have the same set of rules, same tools, same options to design, compute, verify and test everything on the car but the driver is just an accidental work of nature with some additional fine tuning.

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Maybe here for Block SS times
http://www.ewrc-results.com/driver_i...ly-Sweden-2011

Maybe here for Mats
http://www.raceconsulting.com/rally/...=Trimmat%204WD

SS8/9/10/11

2wd National "Grupp H"
http://www.raceconsulting.com/rally/...=Trimmat%202WD


More later.

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Thanks, any info on the spec/tyres etc the GpH cars can run?

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Originally Posted by Nornbugger

Thanks, any info on the spec/tyres etc the GpH cars can run?

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Skinny ones, with LOTS of nasty studs . maybe 8mm stick out.

The thing I was point out to people is the SM guys have much much surface conditions...like canyons instead of ruts...

Because of format it takes some going here going there to compare SS times, but its veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery interesting.....As I said, 2 club MkII Golves and a limousin 940 Volvo beating newest spec Works Ford Fiesta....driven by OK not very good "gentleman driver" but a little something to think about that there is lurking undiscovered perhaps very good talent...

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Per, I struggle to read the whole argument, I admit, but I'm quite sure that differences between drivers on WRC level are reasonably bigger than differences between cars. You know You have the same set of rules, same tools, same options to design, compute, verify and test everything on the car but the driver is just an accidental work of nature with some additional fine tuning.

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For sure. But why discuss at all car performing abiliies? I mean the small differences are playing a role. Remember that in Greece 2012 Mads had not same suspension and gearbox ratios compared to Petter and was beaten on PS podium by one or two tenths of a second.

And Mads is not slow, that´s my main message.

Nobody on WRC level is slow (except Camilli in his current form) but their speed is not equal either and the difference in their speed is a lot bigger than difference between the cars therefore claim of Mads being slower because his car is slow is very hard to back by some actual arguments except personal belief.

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

Still my main issue is: Is Mads slow?

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first off, i have nothing against mads...he does add to the whole wrc experience and number of overall drivers in this category...and for sure ALL of those drivers have great ability and risk their lives in this sport.

however, its all relative to the criteria used to answer the question

over the last few events 2015/2016, i'd have to say he's generally slower compared to ogier, jari, meeke, mikkelsen, tanak, dani, paddon even the crash prone kubica and neuville,,and even somewhat to the newer player breen (early days yet)

now if i generally compare him to prokop, qassimi and some of the newer drivers, abbring, lefebvre, bertelli, camilli (early days still), then he appears faster

for the length of time mads has been in wrc, it seems fair that viewers/fans expect more from him

like many others, i suppose he has reach his peak and maybe that's ok as a 2nd driver pursueing manufacturer points, but not so ok for WDC pursuit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Skinny ones, with LOTS of nasty studs . maybe 8mm stick out.

The thing I was point out to people is the SM guys have much much surface conditions...like canyons instead of ruts...

Because of format it takes some going here going there to compare SS times, but its veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery interesting.....As I said, 2 club MkII Golves and a limousin 940 Volvo beating newest spec Works Ford Fiesta....driven by OK not very good "gentleman driver" but a little something to think about that there is lurking undiscovered perhaps very good talent...

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I expect the world has dozens of Ogiers who had the been born in Ostberg/Mikkelsen etcs house they'd be winning rallies.

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2016/photo...stberg0005.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2016/photo..._ogier0007.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/fotogalery.p...1&fotograf=335



http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2016/photo...016/mn_018.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2016/photo...016/mn_047.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/fotogalery.p...1&fotograf=119

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gorganl2000

first off, i have nothing against mads...he does add to the whole wrc experience and number of overall drivers in this category...and for sure ALL of those drivers have great ability and risk their lives in this sport.

however, its all relative to the criteria used to answer the question

over the last few events 2015/2016, i'd have to say he's generally slower compared to ogier, jari, meeke, mikkelsen, tanak, dani, paddon even the crash prone kubica and neuville,,and even somewhat to the newer player breen (early days yet)

now if i generally compare him to prokop, qassimi and some of the newer drivers, abbring, lefebvre, bertelli, camilli (early days still), then he appears faster

for the length of time mads has been in wrc, it seems fair that viewers/fans expect more from him

like many others, i suppose he has reach his peak and maybe that's ok as a 2nd driver pursueing manufacturer points, but not so ok for WDC pursuit

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Still he is 2nd in championship. Tactics or slow, that´s the question...

He is always good in the beginning of the season...in the end of the season he will be 4th or even 5th, depends on Paddons performance.

Mads' championship standing may be a good example of slow in fast out rule :)