Petter Solberg is a nice guy and a great driver but his time is past in WRC and you can't argue against that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mohit
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Petter Solberg is a nice guy and a great driver but his time is past in WRC and you can't argue against that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mohit
Could be interesting to see other m-sport drivers in other cars. Seems like latvala is "back on track", maybe østberg, novikov, tanak and the likes would perform better in a different environment?
Now I throw in a torch again. And a swede of course. ;)
What about Mattias Ekström? I think Hyundai have the money to pay him if he want to leave DTM, which I think he should do for another motorsport. His abilities in rallying is well documented and he has very good experience from circuitracing as well.
The only thing - he´s not a youngster anymore, but still he would make a big contribution to Huyndai WRC-team.
Where and when did Mattias Ekström ever put down a decent result? I can't remember... :) I remember some outings with Fabia WRC, but he never really impressed, as far as I remember. And why should they pay him some crazy salary in stead of taking one of the many great drivers with lots of potential who are willing to drive for free? :)
Are You joking, right? Ekström did overall 8 WRC events, 3 in WRC car. 6 of those were Swedish rally. What he achieved?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
1999 - ones in Sweden 30th and 11th in production category
2000 - ones in Sweden 21st and 5th in production category
2003 - ones in Sweden 23rd and 3rd in production category
2004 - won production category in Sweden by 27 seconds from Bäcklund, 12th overall; 24th in Spain, 1st in production category but out of only 6 starters (Trivinho was second), 8 JWRC crews ahead of him
2005 - 10th in Sweden in Fabia WRC, 2 minutes behind Paasonen on same car
2006 - accident in Sweden from 5th place; 11th in Germany, 17,5 minutes behind Loeb, 5 minutes behind MacHale
Since then he drove no WRC event. That is already 7 years. Do You really want to suggest him as a works driver for Hyundai?
A it´s same car than Fiat Panda or Ford KAQuote:
Originally Posted by A.F.F.
Let alone if he'd be really interested in a career in rallying, he'd be rallying. The guy is just a circuit racer at heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
This endless push for Swedish drivers is getting a bit absurd with examples like this.
Paddon? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch555
Well, more as a testdriver. But results doesn´t tell all. Look at his competitevness overall. But for sure you can always name several guys who should be in before him, never the less he could be worth the money as well...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Remember I said torch... and look what it gave... :D
Let's take Valentino Rossi then, he did some rally's and is very competitive in a different motorsport series too. ;)
Not bad idea :DQuote:
Originally Posted by EightGear
If I would be in charge of Hyundai WRC project, I'd choose Hirvonen for second car. His job would be development and drive secure points for the team. In the first seat I'd choose someone quick and young.
Forget Ekstrom. If I was Mikko I wouldn´t go in as second man behind Juho, if not payed much more.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.F.F.
In my opinion an ideal driver pairing would be a combination of two drivers who have different timing for their expected career peaks. Having a 80M€/year budget rules automatically out the need to use very unproven drivers some here are suggesting. Why would you waste your money when it's obvious that you want to do well from the beginning (not saying they are meaning January 2014 as they seem to have more iterative approach to car development than VW but anyways pretty soon after that).
For 2014-2016 an ideal driver pairing (based on just driving) could be Hänninen and Neuville. After two years we can see is Juho going up or down and is Neuville potential to become number one. In a situation where Ogier, Latvala and Loeb are not available you have to get the best of the rest. Hänninen is likely very close to his career peak and can deliver straight away. Neuville is a rising star with already some proven record and is regularly showing that he may have what it takes to be a future champion. Hänninen has also quite long experience working with successful factory team which sure helps a new team. If you get some top (experienced) development drivers on board (like Panizzi, Mäkinen...) you have about the best combinantion (of drivers) you can get from the market at the moment. Engineers then are a different story... :)
For Hirvonen, Sordo & Petter I can't see very bright future as new stars like Neuville are getting as fast and have much more potential whereas they are unfortunately going downhill. Meeke is some kind of wildcard for me but in comparison with Hänninen he looses in my books. Same is with Östberg & Novikov vs. Neuville. If there would be three cars instead of two then there is of course more possibilities...
Talking about results - what results have Hanninen done in a WRC-car? Now he´s officially Hyundai developer, but in my opinion like vkangas say, there´s needed a faast young driver already in a steady position in WRC. Unless they can´t buy ot JML or Ogier, Neuville should be the man.
As vkangas says most of the current fast drivers have already peaked or haven´t show the consistency needed.
Remains to hire a coming man as second or third driver, and now we´re back on step one - who should that one be? Young estonian, finn, frenchman or swede?
So far Hänninen hasn't done a single thing to convince me he has what it takes. I hope he'll prove me wrong but I don't understand why folks here keep him such a high value?
EDIT: Apparently Rallyper was thinking the very same at the very same moment :D
Hehe, we said same thing about Hanninen anknown of each other...
Some of us have a kind of soft spot for him ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by A.F.F.
I don't want to say Hänninen would be the messiah in WRC but I base my opinion on the lack of better alternatives. His recent results are in line that what a currently 4th best WRC driver needs to do. Remember that in Sweden and Monte Carlo Juho had very little testing with no engineering power available etc. Juho is also proven winner in IRC/ERC/SWRC. Ok, the level of competition is not so high but many times winners from lower series turn out to be winners sooner than those who do their learning in the high level.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.F.F.
Clearly obvious choises for Hyundai would be Loeb, Ogier and Latvala. After them? Mikko/Ostberg/Novikov? See the results...
No one of us knows in what purpose Hyundai are thought to use Juho. Of course as testdriver, but then? We don´t know if they plan to hire him as first driver when the competition starts up. So in the meantime this discission will bring many alternatives whom are to be examined by us - "the experts" - resulting in drivers from Loeb-level to national young upcomers without experience at all.
I´m sure we´ll mention some of the names that will be signed in the end - in the meantime let´s have an open mind. There are som many ways you can use a different driver for developing the car in best way.
That´s why I came up with Mattias for example, knowing that there are tenths of men with abilities to give advices to Hyundai team.
I think Hyundai will go for the three-four driver line up as VW has done.
Hänninen him self has said: I must be faster than Neuville and Novikov in Rally Finland.
I think he must be faster than PG and Östberg also!
I don't mean to offend but there is always talk of PGA on this board, but I don't remembers him doing anything special at all. A 5th in wrc is the best I can find
I know of a driver who has 5 (maybe 6 or 7...) years of WRC experience, some development ability, is still young, has an excellent finishing record, hardly ever crashes, can work the media very well and promote himself and has scored lots of points and is currently without a WRC seat.
What more could Hyundai want from a driver?
Loeb ?? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by noel157
Matthew Wilson?Quote:
Originally Posted by noel157
Bravo Bravo !!! Winning is a mentality. When you win at one thing (or category) you most likely have the capacity to win at anything. When you have won at many things, you will continue to win at whatever you attempt.Quote:
Originally Posted by vkangas
Losing is also a mentality, and one that is very difficult to change.
If the choice is between a winner in a lesser category or an occasional podium placer at WRC level, your better choice is the winner.
Let's not forget from where Citroen plucked both Loeb and Ogier.
Until another manufacturer understands this simple logic and is brave enough to do the same, nothing will change.
Hard to say if it's true but it certainly has a logic given the ex-Peugeot names in Hyundai.
I heard this rumour after Ypres and thought it made sense - am delighted for Bryan if it's true!
8th July ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
The article speaks about test driver not about him driving 2014 season which might be two different things.
Yep Mirek. No drivers have been announced, just test drivers. Drivers that testing the car(s) and Hyundai testing the drivers. We may see some changes come October/November time. Having said that it's a good pairing with Juho and Bryan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I´m happy for Bouffier, but I think only one of the two will get a seat for 2014.
They need someone with experience of WRC's and the rounds. Neither Hanninen or Bouffier really have either of them really, they need a Sordo or someone alike.
Now they need somebody with great understanding of machinery, tyres etc. Both Hänninen and Bouffier are proven testers. They are not hired to drive a WRC season for the team (at least not now) so their lesser experience with WRC events doesn't matter.
This remind me of Peugeot in the early 2000s, they chose the best drivers available regardless of age (I am of the opinion that the current crop of young drivers are not appropriate for Hyundai at the moment). Ie Marcus, Gilles, Harri and Richard all got signed while they were in their 30s and brought a lot to the team on the technical side and were fast straight away. If Nadan takes this approach again with Hyundai I think his new team will make progress quickly.
The difference is that, of the drivers you speak of, all except Rovanpera were not only the "best available" but were already at the top of their game. Pannizi was the undisputed master of tarmac and already on the payroll, Burns was the incumbent WRC champ, Gronholm had shown the pace that would inevitably bring a world title.
Rovanpera alone was akin to the drivers presently occupying WRC seats and was equally disappointing on the stages.
The reality is that, today, the drivers coming from the 'feeder classes' actually have a greater skill set and a greater chance of success than those also rans in the big seats.
Are Matthew Wilson (Ford test driver) better than Juho Hänninen and Brian Bouffier?
Hahah, very good question. In terms of WRC results, he is...Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira