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Οgier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
These days nobody said that Malcolm hadnt got good drivers.Simply Loeb was better.We are talking about other years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Gronholm and Hirvonen were fighting for wins and championships.They didnt placed 2nd from others retirements,and they werent minutes behind leader at every rally.There is a small difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
They won two manu' championships with Gronholm...
...and Hirvonen. Two manu’s titles in almost 20 WRC full seasons sounds a bit short. And zero driver’s titles even more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
Maybe from '03 (after failing 01' and '02 titles with Sainz and McRae on the team) MSport running budgets were always a bit shorter than competition or maybe Wilson just follows Mr. Ferrari (and many others former or current teams owners) concept that drivers are human resources that must adapt to the structure and never the structure to them (like wisely Citroen and VW did with Loeb and Ogier).
Anyway, WRC roll of honour doesn't reflect MSport winning potential and their amazing achievements as a private company at the rally sport.
Yeah so they had some bad years, but there were reasons - financial mostly, or simply not being in the right place at the right time (to get Ogier).Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
But as they didnt get him its not that important who they did get, as no-one beats Ogier. Wilson has had the best of the rest over the years (Solberg, Gronholm, Hirvonen, Latvala, Ostberg etc) but no-one beats Loeb or Ogier, so its a thankless task trying to do so.
Ford M-Sport doesnt have a divine right to just sign who they want.... there is the little matter of other Teams who are also battling for the best drivers, often with more finances...
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
And in any WRC era other than Loeb's they would've had some driver's Titles.
In the UK businesses don't pay tax on turnoverQuote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Martin was a top drawer driver, closer to being a Loeb IMO than Solberg ever was. Gard/Kresta, are you serious? the car wasn't the best by that season and they were looking at the development of the next years car.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
The flying Scotsman failed MSport in his time there and with a cooler head would have won a title there, Gronholm IMO didn't fail but in pretty much any other era his and MSport efforts together would have produced a drivers title.
car wasnt good at Kresta -Garde days? i dont think so...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nornbugger
I didn't say it wasn't good, I said it wasn't the best, the Xsara was the best in 05, and in 06 and possible still was in 07 if Citroen hadn't stopped using it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
how you know that?
‘05 was a sort of interim season for MSport, as they were already preparing ’06 new model for Gronholm and Haninen. With the ’03 car, Martin did a nice job during ’03 and ’04, despite lots of engine troubles, and Duval didn’t manage to impress.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Duval didn't manage to impress?! He was called the biggest young talent after 2004 and for that he was signed with citroen...
I wasn’t clear enough: Duval didn’t manage to impress, like Martin did. It’s true that ‘03 was Duval first season on a WRC, but Martin was almost always faster than him also in ‘04, getting to match Duval amazing speed on tarmac. All 6 Ford wins on those years came from Martin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
79, Fiat-Abarth took a sabbatical year.
06, Citroën was officially out and Loeb was mostly alone against Grönholm/Hirvonen.
07, same Ford team, Sordo did a bit better but still not enough. 06/07 : Loeb = 16 wins, Grönholm/Hirvonen : 16 wins.
A title is a title though.
Just confirms what a poor record Ford have in the WRC. A meagre return over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karukera
The question is, why? If you look at the (almost) 20 year period that Malcolm has been in charge, they should have managed to deliver the driver's crown at least once. As has been pointed out by others, it isn't for a want of talented drivers (Kankkunen, McRae, Sainz, Solberg, Martin, Gronholm, Latvala, Hirvonen). There are 5 world champions in that list, and none of them did it in a Ford. Why is that? 2 constructors titles do indeed seem like meagre pickings against that embarrassment of talent. Obviously it can be argued that Ford and/or M-Sport found themselves overtaken by events, and the Loeb era was very damaging for the sport, but we seem to be in yet another era of one driver in one car, dominating everything. That said, it seems that M-Sport are the only team currently in the WRC who are really not trying that hard to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
The fact that you are arguing about a guy, who force fed us his talentless son for years, on weather he was successful or not is laughable... tennis is a very nice alternative for you all.
Malcom only cares about one thing, money and nothing more and when it comes to achieving anything more than multiplying his bank account is a failure exactly like he was as a driver.
The only ones that are going to be sad if m-sport says bye bye are the useless guys who count WRCs on each entry list and visit the same hairpin each time the go at an event.
Kankkunen An awesome driver but undeniably past his best when he drove a FordQuote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
Sainz I would say the same about him
McRae Reliability issues with both car and driver, he threw the title away in '01
Solberg One of the weakest champions ever, likely wouldn't have got the title in 03 if Loeb had been allowed to push in GB
Gronholm To push the Loeb/Citroen combo as hard as they did was impressive, late in Gronholm career too, its a shame he didn't join the team in 04
Martin with a bit more experience and maturity could have done more than he did.
Märtin lost the 03 title because the car broke down...
We are all different, and that is a good thing.
i mean that all the factory teams should be banned, and that private tuners should run their motorsport arms.
Could be doifferent teams running F1, rally, sportscar and so on.
Malcolm has been clever and made his company into a very successful business.
if it had not been for 2 x superb Sebastians, he would have won some world championships as well.
But you cant blame a man for making the most of his situation, we need more teams like MSport.
Tommi has more factory support, so lets see in what direction his team takes?
According to N.O.T. rules, that should mean TM could concentrate on competition rather than filling up his wallet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
I would certainly hope Tommi concentrates on being competitive, that is the point, after all. Anyway, his wallet is already full. M-Sport started out as a customer preparation outfit, don't forget that, and they have somewhat returned to their roots. It would be quite different for a new factory backed team to decide that they can't be competitive and just start churning out r5 cars or whatever for privateers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Will they begin testing soon ? or tommi is focused on hiring some more of his finish friends to get payed by toyota ?
the question is will the team flop before or shorty after the start of the season? but the fun part will be when tommi with his english tries to answer to journalists what goes wrong....
Yet another disappointing event for M-Sport. Mads doesn't seem happy, appearing to blame the car:
#5 flag Østberg Mads - Fløene Ola "We have done our best. We were well prepared and did the perfect job inside the car. I can be pleased with that."
As for Camilli, what future for him?
Rumours say it was problems with car during whole rally.
Per I can understand something being wrong programme-wise on Friday, but what would be unfixable all weekend?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Obviously not much problems today. But you have to ask M-Sport about what problems. Just heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
the altitude perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
from the team's press release, Malcolm says nothing about car problems
Team Principal, Malcolm Wilson OBE, said:
“Having hoped to be challenging for a third successive podium, it’s been a disappointing weekend for us. We know that Mads is capable of more and, if you look at the times of Ott [Tänak], we know that the car is too. Mads is driving well, but the times aren’t there so we need to understand his issues and work to find a solution before Portugal.
“Eric did exactly what was asked of him this weekend and he can return to Europe in a positive frame of mind. We need to remember that this is still only the ninth gravel rally of his career and he set some very encouraging times – especially through the fog on El Condor which is something that he has never experienced before. He’s on the right track, and I’m confident he can show further progress once we return to Europe.
“It seems as though Elfyn has had a season’s worth of bad luck this weekend so hopefully he’ll be able to get back to winning ways in Portugal. When he had a clean run, he had more than enough speed to win the rally. He’s scored some solid points with a fourth-placed finish and I’m sure he’ll be out to impress at the next event.”
http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-new...h-in-argentina
So Malcolm definetely says about ''Mads issues that they have to work''
just same as in Citroen days.
Mads is blaming the car, Malcolm is blaming Mads,even comparing him with Tanak, a driver HE dropped in favour of Mads. It seems to me that the only person who thinks the Fiesta is any good, is Malcolm. There always seems to be another excuse, another tale of woe. At the end of it all,results are what matter, and all this consecutive points finish horseshit aside, there aren't any results to speak of.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
9th Gravel rally of his career and he is in a WRC car, most NZ drivers would be disappointed if they didn't do that many events in a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
As far as i know, or have heard, It is a major engineissue at Mads car, It was there in Mexico, but they isnt allowed to change the engine between Mexico and Argentina due too rules. So they knowed before the rally that they going to have less power. I don't know how less power, but it seems too be quite much.
The team told Mats to don't speak about it in the intervjues, bad PR for car?
but isnt it weird that the team and Malcolm know the problem is with the car but then they talk the driver down? They should find a different excuse then, the rally doesnt suit the car or whatever.
Even without any alleged engine problem I doubt the result would have been much different, the next car was nearly 4 minutes in front.
I suppose the Fiesta is probably the slowest World Rally Car now (not a criticsm, they are up against factory teams with mega budgets) but equally I think they could do better than this.
Mads is simply not number one driver material and Camilli is not even number two material. There is not much available on the drivers market at the moment but last year's lineup was better.
I guess the m-sport business depends on selling cars...Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Yeah, Mads was able to go faster than Ott only when Ott had three DMacks:P Camilli even didnt mach that on El Condor.
Yapp, there it was. And I´m sure Skarderud has some inside info about the engine-issue. And speaking of speed, don´t forget he ran on Hard compound on Saturday while VW and Hyundais where on Softs. Why´s that, I have no idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
There just seems to be a general lack of pace from all M-Sport cars at the moment. Mads' consistency is bagging the points, but speed wise not much is going on. Can't help but feel it makes Tanak's Poland performance and Elfyn's Corsica performance in 2015 stand out more.
On the flip side, Hyundai have stepped up with a new car, whereas M-Sport run the same spec as last season, which perhaps makes things seem a little worse.
Very strange situation with Ostberg's car in Argentina. Was there no problem with Camilli's and what about Tanak's ??
Mads was quite clear in telling everyone after stages that he was happy with his driving and was usually on the limit... he must have been inferring that it wasn't him that was to blame for the slow times.
Hopefully we will see the evidence in Portugal.