Singapore 2008: Briatore and Symmonds resign

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Formula 1 has lost. It has always been great to have Briatore around and he made both the Bennetton and Renault team what they were. A great atmosphere with rock music and fun yet still able to get on with the task.

People have gotten too crazy about this issue. After all it was no more serious than Michael Schumacher ramming into Damon Hill or trying to do the same to Jacques Villeneuve.

And which racing team has never tried to bend the rules to breaking point or in years gone by when tv was not so intrusive sort of "knocked" into a another driver on the back end of a circuit?

And what occurrs in Vegas stays in Vegas - a previous season's issues should remain closed but instead we have this typical nanny state investigation ready to blow up.

And Nelson Piquet - if ever there was a spoilt little bitch that should never be given the chance to sit in a f1 racing car again, then he is the bitch.

I wish Flavio and Symonds well. Their record of achievement and the enjoyment they have provided fans over the years far outweighs this overblown saga.

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:rotflmao:

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Originally Posted by keysersoze

Dennis and Flavio got what was coming to him, but to praise Max is a bit rich, no?

Whether he was guilty of exhibiting disrespect towards Jews or not, his "activity" was creepy, disgraceful, and perhaps demented. His vote-of-confidence was not an affirmation of his good character, but ONLY a machiavellian (and I might add cowardly) measure taken by the panel.

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Get a grip on reality. It's not about praising the son of a Nazi-Fascist sympathizer. What Mosely has done is no different from the Machiavellian instincts or actions found in the boardroom of FORTUNE 500 companies.

F1 has a history full of shady, cut-throat individuals. Even to this day nothing has changed in the dog-eat-dog world that surrounds F1. The soap operas will continue, whether you like it or not.

After all, many of these car-nazi's (manufacturers in F1) have performed atrocities that's well beyond the scope of Nazi Germany. In the past (and even today) many of them have sold death boxes (cars) with crappy engineering or lackluster safety standards. All in the name of the mighty dollar but at a cost of millions of lives on the road.

An appearance was made today at the Renault F1 Team facility at Enstone by Dave Richards, according to SPEEDTV http://formula-one.speedtv.com/artic...-over-renault/

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Formula 1 has lost. It has always been great to have Briatore around and he made both the Bennetton and Renault team what they were. A great atmosphere with rock music and fun yet still able to get on with the task.

People have gotten too crazy about this issue. After all it was no more serious than Michael Schumacher ramming into Damon Hill or trying to do the same to Jacques Villeneuve.

And which racing team has never tried to bend the rules to breaking point or in years gone by when tv was not so intrusive sort of "knocked" into a another driver on the back end of a circuit?

And what occurrs in Vegas stays in Vegas - a previous season's issues should remain closed but instead we have this typical nanny state investigation ready to blow up.

And Nelson Piquet - if ever there was a spoilt little bitch that should never be given the chance to sit in a f1 racing car again, then he is the bitch.

I wish Flavio and Symonds well. Their record of achievement and the enjoyment they have provided fans over the years far outweighs this overblown saga.

The Renault company panicked and in doing so it has destroyed the structure of a race winning and championship able team.

I see absolutely no reason now for Alonso to remain at Renault and predict that they will likely become also-rans unless they can hire someone like Dave Richards of Pro-Drive.

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:rotflmao: :p : :rotflmao:

The activities of Max Mosely's father have nothing to do with his son. While the sexual proclivities of Max Mosely may be less than orthodox, he also has done far more for being in f1 than not.

Do not be hypocrites and judge these men on the one issue where their judgement [and the Renault issue is still hearsay] may have been weak.

But I guess it is easy to point fingers sitting safe behind a computer and never having to make judgements of signficant consequence.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

The activities of Max Mosely's father have nothing to do with his son. While the sexual proclivities of Max Mosely may be less than orthodox, he also has done far more for being in f1 than not.

Do not be hypocrites and judge these men on the one issue where their judgement [and the Renault issue is still hearsay] may have been weak.

But I guess it is easy to point fingers sitting safe behind a computer and never having to make judgements of signficant consequence.

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Mea Culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. :(

If you read the materials (link was posted above) flavio comes across as a p.o.s scumbag. He offers no meaningful input on the race radio. He just makes some disrespectful comments. Thats his contribution. If I owned the team and read these materials I would can him too, whether he knew about the cheating conspiracy or not.

In one way, I'm glad to see the back of Flavio, since his insistence that in his mind brainless so-called entertainment mattered more than the technical side and could have ruined the sport had he managed to get more involved - stick to selling clothes and running your underachieving 2nd division football team (no offence to any genuine QPR fans out there!)

Still, he's been a fixture since I started watching in the early 90s so it seems a bit weird.

OK, I'm going to ask this, and I don't have time to read through all 30-odd pages so apologies if this has already been brought up, but who exactly is in charge of the Renault F1 team now, even if just for four races?

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Originally Posted by V12

In one way, I'm glad to see the back of Flavio, since his insistence that in his mind brainless so-called entertainment mattered more than the technical side and could have ruined the sport had he managed to get more involved - stick to selling clothes and running your underachieving 2nd division football team (no offence to any genuine QPR fans out there!)

Still, he's been a fixture since I started watching in the early 90s so it seems a bit weird.

OK, I'm going to ask this, and I don't have time to read through all 30-odd pages so apologies if this has already been brought up, but who exactly is in charge of the Renault F1 team now, even if just for four races?

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Aside from Williams-Head, Briatore is the most successful team principle out there. It is not accidental that he signed Schumacher and Alonso and managed the team to where both drivers won consecutive world titles apiece.

This is a man you deride?

I urge you to look at the facts and reconsider your position.

What does the technical side bring to f1 on its own? Nothing. Whether the cars have carbon fibre brake discs or steel ones is immaterial to fans that care about the racing on the track - for example.

And it is not accidental that today di Montezemolo has sounded a warning about declining interest in f1 as represented this year in spectator interest. That it took an aging injured ex-world champion's potential retun to raise excitement is an indictment of the current state of affairs.

Yes, Briatore is not a technical person but he brought a different perspective to f1 and his ideas were acted upon to the degree that he was the leader in and of FOTA and its break-away series position.

Do not dismiss Briatore lightly - the sport has lost a very valuable contributor and all the silly celebration that is being exhibited on these message boards over it is misguided.

Of course the resentment may be caused by jealously because he will likely retire to his island with his extremely beautiful wife and family and continue to run his exclusive billionaires club - amongst his members being JayZee.

Nothing like success to raise resentment :s mokin:

On the other hand unless the FIA does something stupid like ban him for life, if I were a new team I would try and hire him as team principle - lets see: Adrian Campos or Flavio Briatore as manager...... duh!!!

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Originally Posted by rabf1

If you read the materials (link was posted above) flavio comes across as a p.o.s scumbag. He offers no meaningful input on the race radio. He just makes some disrespectful comments. Thats his contribution. If I owned the team and read these materials I would can him too, whether he knew about the cheating conspiracy or not.

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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooo You naughty, naughty man!! what a thing to say! What a terrible thing to say!! :eek:

And just when we were going to forward his name to the Vatican so he can be canonized!! :(

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

This is a man you deride?

I urge you to look at the facts and reconsider your position.



Yes, Briatore is not a technical person but he brought a different perspective to f1 and his ideas were acted upon to the degree that he was the leader in and of FOTA and its break-away series position.

... duh!!!

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Flav is a cheating conniving lying scumbag. He is departing Renault because he was involved in the fixing of a race, and he deserves to be in jail in Singapore. He has brought shame to the competition of F1. And he has disgraced the name of Renault.

And his attack on the private life of Nelson Piquet Jr just about sums up what a sleaze he is.

Good riddance!!

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Originally Posted by Lemmy-Boy

Get a grip on reality. It's not about praising the son of a Nazi-Fascist sympathizer. What Mosely has done is no different from the Machiavellian instincts or actions found in the boardroom of FORTUNE 500 companies.

F1 has a history full of shady, cut-throat individuals. Even to this day nothing has changed in the dog-eat-dog world that surrounds F1. The soap operas will continue, whether you like it or not.

After all, many of these car-nazi's (manufacturers in F1) have performed atrocities that's well beyond the scope of Nazi Germany. In the past (and even today) many of them have sold death boxes (cars) with crappy engineering or lackluster safety standards. All in the name of the mighty dollar but at a cost of millions of lives on the road.

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I don't doubt the realities. I just don't praise them, or give my tacit approval, and I certainly don't feel that Max (of all people) deserves to "enjoy" someone else's demise.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Flav is a cheating conniving lying scumbag. He is departing Renault because he was involved in the fixing of a race, and he deserves to be in jail in Singapore. He has brought shame to the competition of F1. And he has disgraced the name of Renault.

And his attack on the private life of Nelson Piquet Jr just about sums up what a sleaze he is.

Good riddance!!

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The private life of Piquet? I didn't read anything. Anyway its rich irony because we all recall the personal attacks by Nelson Piquet [father] on Senna and Mansell.

So you think the Briatore issue [which has still to be proven although you are presuming Briatore's guilt] is that serious you impune the character of Flavio?

Then what do you say about a driver that CRASHES into another competitir deliberately - why was there no investigation. And seeing that the past can be dragged up, why is the team not investigated NOW?

And what about the scandal of Ferrari being the secret partner to making the rules - why is that not a "crime"?

There is a double standard, a standard of subjective guilt that makes the outrage against Flavio akin to the moment in the movie Casablanca, where the Vichy detective is "shocked to discover...."

To the people that attack Flavio and revel in his trouble - their disgusting schadenfreude - I say "je accuse!!, je accuse! You are all hypocrites!

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

The private life of Piquet? I didn't read anything. Anyway its rich irony because we all recall the personal attacks by Nelson Piquet [father] on Senna and Mansell.

So you think the Briatore issue [which has still to be proven although you are presuming Briatore's guilt] is that serious you impune the character of Flavio?

Then what do you say about a driver that CRASHES into another competitir deliberately - why was there no investigation. And seeing that the past can be dragged up, why is the team not investigated NOW?

And what about the scandal of Ferrari being the secret partner to making the rules - why is that not a "crime"?

There is a double standard, a standard of subjective guilt that makes the outrage against Flavio akin to the moment in the movie Casablanca, where the Vichy detective is "shocked to discover...."

To the people that attack Flavio and revel in his trouble - their disgusting schadenfreude - I say "je accuse!!, je accuse! You are all hypocrites!

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!. In answer to you opening sentence, read the link given in this thread, and where it has been discussed alread, and where most of us called him a sleazy scumbag.

In answer to your second sentence, Yes! [read the questions put to Pat Symonds that he evaded], and Yes! He is a lying, cheating, conniving scumbag!.

In answer to your third and fourth sentences, they have been discussed ad infinitum here long before you blessed us here with your presence.

In answer to your next sentence, this has nothing to do with Humphrey Bogart.

And we all than you for your last paragraph!! and we don't give a shyte!!

fav and sims leaving...to me...says it all...GUILTY!! i know i know NPjr was not the best driver but i don't think the crash was an accident.

fav, pat didn't give NPjr a easy time and then asking him to set up a deliberate crash and then firing him...knowing all this had gone on and expecting NPJr not to say a word...big mistake and are going to pay for it.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

To the people that attack Flavio and revel in his trouble - their disgusting schadenfreude - I say "je accuse!!, je accuse! You are all hypocrites!

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At least, you have identified yourself as a worshiper of Sleazy Flav, and that stench will follow you in this forum forever. :eek:

One more thing!! if you are going to say j'accuse!!, j'accuse!, at least get that right :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

At least, you have identified yourself as a worshiper of Sleazy Flav, and that stench will follow you in this forum forever. :eek:

One more thing!! if you are going to say j'accuse!!, j'accuse!, at least get that right :rolleyes:

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:laugh:

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

At least, you have identified yourself as a worshiper of Sleazy Flav, and that stench will follow you in this forum forever. :eek:

One more thing!! if you are going to say j'accuse!!, j'accuse!, at least get that right :rolleyes:

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Sacre bleu merde petit dejeuner! :p

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...-14495823.html

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While questions were asked at the time, the governing body said they could take no action because there had been no complaints or protests over the result. That was also their line when, it is believed, the subject was raised again at last year's season-ending Brazilian Grand Prix.
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...#ixzz0RKlGF3T2

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valve
I think you hate flav worse than I hate Richards

In flav's favor he did bed Naomi and Heidi

The 2008 drivers championship would not be affected by exclusing Alonso from the results of Singapore. It just means that Hamilton would have won the championship by a bigger margin and we wouldn't have had the last lap thriller last year!

I think an appropriate punishment for Renault is the same one they gave McLaren. A hefty fine and zero points for this years constructors championshop.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

And what occurrs in Vegas stays in Vegas - a previous season's issues should remain closed but instead we have this typical nanny state investigation ready to blow up.

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Why do some people seem hell-bent on sweeping cheating under the carpet? Yes it's bad for the sport's image in the short term; but it's only right and proper than wrongdoing is exposed, properly investigated and punished where necessary.

People will always seek to exploit the rules, and to sometimes overstep the mark, but asking a driver to deliberately crash a car and risk the safety of those around him... well that is a new low. Nanny state? This was the most blatent and dangerous attempt at cheating that I've ever encountered in sport.

F1 has to be fair, and what's more it has to be seen to be fair.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Flav is a cheating conniving lying scumbag. He is departing Renault because he was involved in the fixing of a race, and he deserves to be in jail in Singapore. He has brought shame to the competition of F1. And he has disgraced the name of Renault.

And his attack on the private life of Nelson Piquet Jr just about sums up what a sleaze he is.

Good riddance!!

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Errrrmmmmm, aaaahhhhhhh, didn't NPKSnr publicly accuse Ayrton of being Gay, and didn't he deride 'our Nige's' wife.

You see - what goes around comes around.......

I think that if Alonso was unaware of the decisions in Renault, his result shouldn't be affected. And by the way, despite everything, I sympathize with Flav more that I do with the horrible Piquet family.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Why do some people seem hell-bent on sweeping cheating under the carpet? Yes it's bad for the sport's image in the short term; but it's only right and proper than wrongdoing is exposed, properly investigated and punished where necessary.

People will always seek to exploit the rules, and to sometimes overstep the mark, but asking a driver to deliberately crash a car and risk the safety of those around him... well that is a new low. Nanny state? This was the most blatent and dangerous attempt at cheating that I've ever encountered in sport.

F1 has to be fair, and what's more it has to be seen to be fair.

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This is the crux of the matter.

Leaving aside the deliberate crashes of Senna and Schumacher as they are fundementally different (drivers acting on their own volition), I cannot remember another instance of a driver deliberatly crashing to fundementally alter a race to the benefit of his team mate. In fairness, most drivers would stick 2 fingers up at the suggestion.

What has happened was fundemental cheating at it's worse and was right to be fully and openly investigated, not swept under the carpet as some would wish.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

The private life of Piquet? I didn't read anything.

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Than you should read some more before coming in here and giving your speach from your high horse.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

!. In answer to you opening sentence, read the link given in this thread, and where it has been discussed alread, and where most of us called him a sleazy scumbag.

In answer to your second sentence, Yes! [read the questions put to Pat Symonds that he evaded], and Yes! He is a lying, cheating, conniving scumbag!.

In answer to your third and fourth sentences, they have been discussed ad infinitum here long before you blessed us here with your presence.

In answer to your next sentence, this has nothing to do with Humphrey Bogart.

And we all than you for your last paragraph!! and we don't give a shyte!!

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Exactly! :up:

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Originally Posted by henners88

I'd forgotten about that, but yes he sure did say those things in order to gain a psychological advantage. What a rogue .. :p

Piquets crash in Singapore was dangerous, but I can think of at least 3 other incidents from 1990, 1994, and 1997 where fellow drivers deliberately crashed into oponents in order to fix the race/championship result. These could very well be argued to be as, if not more dangerous as an example IMO.. I suppose the disgusting thing about this latest incident is the fact it was premeditated rather than a split second decision made in the heat of battle. Thats what sets it apart, the deviancy rather than the danger... :)

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True, there are number of cases in addition to those, for example Senna, at Estoril 1988, was very very close to putting Prost deliberately in the wall at 300kph. Piquet's crash should indeed be considered in relation to what has happened before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjfwRrvtlNw

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Sacre bleu merde petit dejeuner! :p

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You're already doing better than Saint Devote! ;)

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Originally Posted by henners88

I'd forgotten about that, but yes he sure did say those things in order to gain a psychological advantage. What a rogue .. :p

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Fairly benign, isn't it. But you cannot be hypocritical in this game, can you.

My comment was in deirect to the opinion of Valve;

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

And his attack on the private life of Nelson Piquet Jr just about sums up what a sleaze he is.

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So you see, in my book, the Piquets (you'd assume like father, like son) and Flavio appear to be like peas in a pod. Goose, Gander and all that.

Now, if we look back at the stewards enquiry conducted in Spa, I recall a comment where they could not implicate Flavio. So as yet, the only truths - or known knowns if you are across the pond are;

The crash was deliberate.

The Mens Rea was conducted in a meeting either on the Saturday or the Sunday prior to the race start.

The Actus Reus can only be from Piquet - no one else was driving.

The unknown knowns - I love the amayreecans - are

Who's idea was it?

Were the Piquets blackmailing the team, or an individual or individuals within the team?

Why did Piquet not just say no, then go running to the appropriate authorities?

Why did Piquet think it was OK to keep it quiet until it suited him.

Now, will we ever know the truth. Or will the FIA put out a press release saying that the answer is 42??? ;)

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Originally Posted by fousto

In flav's favor he did bed Naomi and Heidi

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I bet it wasn't for his great looks or his sleaze bag personality.
Is it something positive to get in bed with women because you have lots of money :?:

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Originally Posted by ioan

Is it something positive to get in bad with women because you have lots of money :?:

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I don't know mate - I'm skint! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by ioan

I bet it wasn't for his great looks or his sleaze bag personality.

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So, tell me Miss xxxxxxx, what was it about the multi millionaire Flavio Briatore that attracted you to him? ;)

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

True, there are number of cases in addition to those, for example Senna, at Estoril 1988, was very very close to putting Prost deliberately in the wall at 300kph. Piquet's crash should indeed be considered in relation to what has happened before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjfwRrvtlNw

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Not really.

Piquet's crash was premeditated by the team in order to favor their other driver.

Senna did also say he will do it if Prost get's ahead of him at the start and he did it, so it is somewhat similar but the team was not involved.

Michael did not premeditate his move and he didn't announce it one day before it happened, also he got stripped of his 2nd place in the championship for what happened.

But if we got to searching similar cases of races fixes when a driver did something dangerous to favor his team or team mate than Spa 1998 springs to mind, but we have no proof as back then the radio conversation between team and driver were note closely monitored by the FIA like they do now. Also there is little to suggest that the team discussed it before the race.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Errrrmmmmm, aaaahhhhhhh, didn't NPKSnr publicly accuse Ayrton of being Gay, and didn't he deride 'our Nige's' wife.

You see - what goes around comes around.......

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I'm not aware that Nelson Senior was involved in race fixing.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

So you see, in my book, the Piquets (you'd assume like father, like son) ...

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That's one supposition too much in order to make a point.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

I'm not aware that Nelson Senior was involved in race fixing.

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Well, we don't know yet, but that was not the accusation levied by the author....

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

So, tell me Miss xxxxxxx, what was it about the multi millionaire Flavio Briatore that attracted you to him? ;)

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I bet she will duck it.

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Originally Posted by ioan

That's one supposition too much in order to make a point.

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'Twas but a mere assuption me ole mucker!

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

I don't know mate - I'm skint! :laugh:

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My bad, corrected it now! :D