My pics from NORF 2008:
http://www.rallikuvat.net/2008/norf/index.php
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My pics from NORF 2008:
http://www.rallikuvat.net/2008/norf/index.php
That’s exactly it.Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
Any of us who have spent time driving in stages know that the amount of variables in any given stage is huge. Driving a rally car really fast on a stage is a very difficult thing to do, and a very easy thing to get wrong and end up off the road. Every corner is different and, even with pace notes, you are never 100% sure what is coming down the next stretch of road. How advanced your car is is only a part (admittedly a large one) of the in stage variables.
Yes the cars are MUCH easier to drive than the good old days, but when it comes down to it the car does not drive itself. The driver still needs to steer, brake, accelerate, listen to pace notes, read the road, use his judgement, take risks just as much as they ever did.
The car is just the tool of the sport. Whether its easier/harder to drive, more/less sideways, fwd/rwd or 4wd, as long as everyone is in similar equipment its the guy behind the steering wheel that makes the difference.
I am not a fan of Loebs, I would rather see another guy winning for a change, but lets give credit where credit is due - to the guy who out drove everyone else in the same event, under the same regulations, to take the win in NORF 2008.
I'm sure the debate will rage on, but when it comes down to it it’s the record book that tells the story - and Loeb's name is all over it.
Best post by far!!Quote:
Originally Posted by duff
my pics Norf 2008.
Excellent pictures Timo!
It is nice to read all opinions-but from my point of view Loeb has made the last step to the fifth title-if no technichal problems stops C4, no way Mikko can beat Seb. Last year at this time he was 13 points behind Markus, now yust one. And on tarmac-no chance for Mikko to be in front of both Citroen's. Even more-has has also Duval to watch on !!
It is also a question, what means this lost battle on homeground for Mikko-I mean about motivation ???
I understand Mikko's fans-it is hard to belive, but Loeb has now all the best cards in his hands.
Germany, France and Spain-three big wins in the row.....
Well, nothing is certain on Earth. For example, Basso was also favorite to win in Madeira, but... One mistake, and even great pace isn't enough to clinch the victory. And even Loeb, even on his favorite ground in Germany or France, isn't guaranteed to triumph: a wrong tyre choice, the weather's surprise or smth else, not talking about possible technical problems, can deprive him of victory. So we just have to wait and see, but not rush in conclusions that the destiny of the championship is already decided - it's actually a reall bull..., especially in motorsport. Being the best driver out there, Seb can surely set a new record of 7 wins on one event in a row, but at the same time with just the same probability he can retire: we can't know the outcome before the rally finishes.Quote:
Originally Posted by jure dvorsek
Back from Finland - had a blast! Also got an honorary diploma in Finnish Sauna stamina!
Look out for Matti Rantanen - 7th in his first outing in a WRC car, beating Munchi's guys and Matthew Wlson and others.
First batch of my pics are on http://www.kickastra.com. Much more to come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonlint
Now theres a result totally overlooked here, who is he? Is this really his 1st WR car drive? Or his 1st time using one on a WRC event? Certainly a great showing from him over the weekend. I'd like to know more about him and his plans etc as he was totally unknown to me on thursday.
He's 27, finished 3rd in JWRC on rally Finland 2006 as a guest driving a group N Civic. Has been driving a group N Mitsu for 1,5 year now. First time on a WRCar.Quote:
Originally Posted by cut the b.s.
I agree .Quote:
Originally Posted by duff
And I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression with my posts.
Even if the WRC cars are easier to drive than the Group A cars that doesn't mean a lot regarding the efforts of the drivers. Is very demanding to drive even a N2 car in a rally to say the least. To be on the limit all the time with a WRC car is something to applaud not criticise for sure...
My point was not to undermine the efforts of the rest of WRC drivers....
I rate Loeb at the highest level. I just thought that if he was in another era the records wouldn't be as easy to achieve as in the current era. And this because also the teams back then would pay the driver to do the job. Thus we were watching the elite of rally drivers. Here half the grid pay or have their sponsors pay for their drive... The competition is in the lowest level since the pay and drive thing came into the WRC life at the current extent... simple as that.
I do respect every driver from the 1st to the last but the true fact is that very few can do the required job.
my pics from 2008 neste rally finland :eek:
http://www.samzon.kuvat.fi/kuvat/
My pics from Finland: http://www.rallyfoto.be
Sorry if i missed it, anyone have some info about Seb beeing caught speeding?
He was caught doing 100kph in a 60 kph area before the rally.
Gabor Meyr, Andrea Cortinovis and Vytautas Baranauskas were caught speeding last Tuesday and immediately lost their driving license that very same day - and weren´t in the end allowed to start the rally. On Wednesday a fairly unknown French fellow called Sebastien Loeb was caught speeding 41km/h over the limit - just like Baraunauskas. For some unknown reason the police didn´t deal with Loeb´s speeding issue until Sunday after the rally - the person deciding about the driving license ban got the information about Loeb´s speeding on Friday two days after the speeding happened and then it was too late to stop Seb from starting the rally - go figure..
In Finnish:
http://www.hs.fi/urheilu/artikkeli/L.../1135238319501
I think its stupid for rally drivers not to allow to participate in a rally because of something so small as a speeding ticket.....in the case of Meyr and Cortinovis the police did a stupid thing...
so you think the law should be different if the guy happens to be a rally driver?Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I think surely competition and driving on the road should be separate. If Loeb had lost his licence what problem is there with him driving on the stages and having Elena driving on the public roads? I think this is a more sensible way to deal with things. I think the rules of the country you're in should be accepted and abided by. You have to wonder why Loeb was treated differently to these other drivers. But then again it's obvious why :) Money talks and privateers get excluded. Good fight for the win though :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Tomi
Yes money seems to talk, also Citroen should stop to use their wrc testcar on public roads after the roads are not closed anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
The problem is that by the Finnish traffic law you can drive without a driving licence only on closed road section where there are no other cars, a special stage of a rally does not fulfill these requirements as there are other cars on the stage at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Apart the police nobody really knows for sure why Loeb got a different treatment compared to others who were caught , not so famous drives, maybe because this is no Monte-Carlo where you get disqualified due to wrong type of headlights....
just a question to the finnish people...which win ridiculed the local boys more and made you so bitter ?? Martins or Loebs ?? can we have a poll ???
>>which win ridiculed the local boys more and made you so bitter ??
>>Martins or Loebs ?? can we have a poll ???
Ericsson 1989!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
my god...a Swede winning in Finland....the world is a different place since that event occured...
He'll win, you can't hope those things happen. You have to seek about Rautenbach or Elena wrong notes ;pQuote:
Originally Posted by White Sauron
Anyway, before the year I was totally sure Loeb would win the championship hands down already in the middle of the season, instead it has been tight until now (the difference is in Jordan, without that accident on road section, then Loeb would be already quite ahead). At least thanx to this 'battle', thanx to JML raw speed and first victory record in Sweden and thanx to Gigi of course :D we are having little more than zero emotions.
Neither one i guess, it takes skill and balls to win here, everyone knows that only a topdriver can do that, but i personally rank Loebs win higher, because Märtin did have no real competition after the Peugeot bearring episode.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Neither one, don't quite get it why you think we are bitter? Thing is we do recognise true champions and give them the credit what they deserve. During the years we have had all sort of lucky champions and world best drivers trying to win NORF but they have failed in it for obvious reasons, it takes more than just being lucky to win NORF.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
So maybe you should try to find someone else to fight with today, like I noticed you managed to do yesterday, because all in all this is just sport and there are far more important things in life than to be bitter because Sebastien Loeb won NORF 2008 after all he is real champion not a lucky winner.
So thats who he is?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly
I was there and he was absolutely amazing in the Civic in 2006.
This is the best post i saw today. :up: Thanks my friend. :s mokin:Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
Yes, I had a chance to talk with him at the shakedown, he seems like a guy who walk on the ground and according to him self, he was there only to do a few competitive stage times.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJW
Funny is that he said its difficult to get the Focus going without using the launch system, at the first stage he stalled the car in the corner we where spectating, lol it sure took some time for him to get it going again.
Rally is over and I'm tired but very happy :)
And boy, what a rally it was. :eek: Loeb and Hirvonen were SO MUCH faster than anybody else. You really can't understand the speed if you can't see them live. Both took enourmous risks and drove flat out. Interesting was to see that mikko had much more aggressive style than Loeb but Loeb's way turned to be more effective in the end. Congrats to Sebastien and Daniel, true champions of rallying :up:
Another drivers only got star points. Gigi was the best out of them. We had an excellent spectating point where Gigi was just unbelieveble. Folks spectating actually falled down when he passed by :D
Huge props to Matti Rantanen too. I like his driving and I like his attitude. One to follow in the future.
Also, my greatest appreciation to forumteam again who made this trip more than worthy... again. :)
A few mangled motors over the weekend
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/loeb...d-wrc-victory/
Well done Seb, Atko and Matti Rantanen
Wilks has done himself no harm this weekend either.
Another question from outer space...
Why Galli used finnish pace notes on the super special ????
maybe same reason why hirvonen used italian notes, i think it tells about what they actually think about superspecials.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Greetings from Jyväskylä trip, my 16th in a row.
My rally spectating always starts with a thorough recce of the stages. Saturday was an interesting rally day with plenty new in the route.
I found a really interesting tightening right over crest from Himos stage. On Kakaristo I fell in love with a breathtaking flat jump right to tightening left over crest which was really confusing and difficult. On Juupajoki there's a nice crest braking 30 to fast tightening left. It seemed that the route was really difficult, especially those three places that I was gonna watch.
First in the morning I went to Himos. Hirvonen started the show with a beautiful save hanging by the edge of a ditch. Then after couple of close calls Aava hit the bank with the rear of his car and then hit the front and span over. Spectators helped him back to the right direction. Then came Latvala who hit the bank and ended up in the ditch. Quickly spectators carried him back on the road and he could continue. After that it seemed that everyone was in trouble and there was 18 (!) off the road excursion that needed spectators help to be able to continue. Several cars had to retire because of accident damage, and three cars rolled, including Sandell and Pinomäki.
Then to Kakaristo, where Henning started the show hanging on the edge of a cliff at 150km/h! That was a huge save! Galli came a bit faster and in a totally wrong line jumping directly off the road with no chance to save. He didn't even touch the road but flew directly to the ravine rolling the car several times. I run to the car and Galli laid on his back on the roof of the upside down car. I asked if he was okay and he replied me irritated with a shout I´M OKAY I´M OKAY!!! Then he asked where are we? and where is the road. I pointed him the five metres up visible road, and he said oh...
Then came Andersson with a high speed off ending up towards a big tree. One tree fell down and stuck the road, but was quickly removed by the spectators. Andersson put a triangle on the road but in a useless place, just on top of the latter jump hiding in the right. Salo came and couldn’t see the triangle until it was too late. He came flat out to the first jump and it is impossible to stay on the road at that speed. He rolled spectacularly over Galli’s car which was still at the bottom of the ravine. What a relief that no one get hurt in this really high speed place. After Salo´s accident the triangle was moved on top of the first jump but still for example Ogier, Wilks and Ceccoli had serious close calls there!
Then we went Juupajoki, where we witnessed Villagra’s and Arminen’s rolls and Companc’s and Aava’s close calls.
So we witnessed 23 offs and 8 rolls in one day…
About the competition itself Loeb controlled the rally, so he deserved it. Hirvonen was really on his limits with wider lines and more close calls. It would have been interesting to see Latvala’s performance later on, but he wasn’t ready, yet, and drove off twice…
Atko did good as well as Rantanen. Hänninen isn’t the fastest, but knows that result counts.
The most pleasant to watch was Sebastien Ogier, he drove amazingly, reminded me of Loeb a couple of years ago. Retired from fourth position in r2, amazing! There’s now a lot of Ogier fans in Finland after his performance, it is nice that many have noticed his drive at the end of the start field.
Great rally again.
Fair enough :up: In that case I guess you could reasonably argue that Loeb shouldn't have been driving in the rally. I wonder if Citroen used some kind of delaying tactics and there is some sort of hearing that is going on/has gone on after the rally. It stinks that the others have not had the same treatment though.....Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
Lots of drunks this year? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by A.F.F.
Also as a sidenote.... N.O.T :) As much as I agree with you sometimes I think you're very much wrong. The forum Finns that I have met aren't the Finnish equivalent to English football fans who want to see their team win and think that everything is **** unless England wins. These guys are real rally fans and they love to see good rallying no matter who wins which is the way it should be. Of course they would rather have seen Mikko win a fair fight but that's just human nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I think it was a tribute to Finland, simply :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Tomi
Much like when he used a Portugal t-shirt in the 2007 Superspecial ... showman :p
Mh ? He flew over their heads ? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by A.F.F.
Seriously, what did he do ? Massive long jump ? Or just totally sideway throwing dirt and stones everywhere XD ?
Yes they showed it in the TV ... great save, like Hirvonen in 2007 in another SS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sami
Lol I think he wanted to understand if he could come back ... that was crazy anyway xDQuote:
I run to the car and Galli laid on his back on the roof of the upside down car. I asked if he was okay and he replied me irritated with a shout I´M OKAY I´M OKAY!!! Then he asked where are we? and where is the road. I pointed him the five metres up visible road, and he said oh...
About the harsh reply, it's normal when you have realized in that moment that you just trashed your possible first podium in Finland ...
Ogier instead of Sordo next year in Citroen in gravel rallies :p ! So maybe there will actually be 4 cars fighting for the victory ... (better than 2-3 surely ^^)Quote:
The most pleasant to watch was Sebastien Ogier, he drove amazingly, reminded me of Loeb a couple of years ago. Retired from fourth position in r2, amazing! There’s now a lot of Ogier fans in Finland after his performance, it is nice that many have noticed his drive at the end of the start field.
Unfortunately yes. Maybe not more than previous years but they were more drunk. Brother John and I basicly saved on sorry ass Latvian since he was standing on stage just staring the upcoming car. :down: I just can't understand it. NORF has changed to some sort of ****ing festival instead of a rally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Well, he actually flew over their heads :) We were standing just behind a small crest which was a gently sloping right. After that was an uphill and a 90 degree right so what the drivers had to do right after the crest was to break the pace of. Most of them, including Loeb even did break before the crest. Anyway, there was a deep and relatively wide ditch between the road and our spectating point. Many cut just to the edge of the ditch and as they had break before the crest, they went neatly ( and boringly ) to the uphill. But when Galli came, he cut OVER the ditch and the car got a jump from some stone and basicly FLEW right before us so we could see the bottom of the car and to the other side of the road to another ditch when he started breaking :D I'm not lying, the car wasn't too far from us and a young couple actually falled down as he went by. It was unbelievable :D Mikko took the same place very good too. And Juha Salo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helstar
I confirm that. The images (although badly filmed) were impressive.
Yes that's the only thing I dislike about the event. We were at Ouninpohja last year and Caroline had just found a spot where she would be able to see a tiny bit of the action and some huge guy comes and stands right in front of her :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by A.F.F.
As for people standing on the road..... it's always funny until someone gets hurt.
Here is a picture from 3 years ago. I kind of thought it was funny after I took it but it's not really cool at all. I like being close but the thought of being close to a car near jumps while I was intoxicated (these people were frigging drunk) just scares me.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~fenix19...zyLatvians.JPG