S2000 & Group N, The future of rallying?

Anything which brings 7 manufacturers into the WRC will be alright with me. Time will tell though.

Its another thing to produce a car of certain specifications and sell it to rich boys and another to run a full WRC program. i doubt that all the manufacturers that will produce an s2000 will take part in the WRC.

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Originally Posted by MJW

Time will tell about that, but it is long past the time that costs were controlled. Being a techno fan I feel a little loss at the super technology (electronics) on current cars, but from a sporting point of view if these new cars could be say €250,000 and not be out of date after 1 year, (see difference between 05 Focus and 07 car - not in the same rally) and have a 3 year life and down to €100,000 after a few years and young drivers could get a chance to prove themselves in a few year old works cars it would be good. Almost back to the days of say Petter and Markko Martin in Celicas 205s. Anything that rewards fast (young) drivers and returns us to 6+ manufactureres who pay drivers to drive rather than the blatant bring money situation we have now is a good thing. The proposals about mechanical sequential gearboxes should also reward "real drivers"

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If this will happen it will be good, another way is of course to go in and say that basic homologations are for 3 years, and that just a few small things can be updated btw homologations - that would also create level playing fields for privateers and private teams !!

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Originally Posted by Sulland

If this will happen it will be good, another way is of course to go in and say that basic homologations are for 3 years, and that just a few small things can be updated btw homologations - that would also create level playing fields for privateers and private teams !!

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I agree strongly with this. It nearly happened with Group A, and, to be fair, the Sierra Cosworth and BMW M3 in particular were competitive customer cars for several seasons without major changes.

If the cost goes down and more manufacturers join, it’s the right way. :up:

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Originally Posted by Sulland

Engine: Will be based on a S2000 engine, and a standard Turbo will be added, to get more torque, but not much more hp's than 270-280 that S2000 has today.

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This would mean a quite standard engine like N4 nowadays. It would be nice if there were an option for the manufacturer to use a NA engine (2,5 l- 3,0 l) also. Not all manufacturers have a 2,5 l engine in it’s program but I think for the price of a turbo a 2,8 l – 3,2 l engine could be downsized to a 2,5 l.

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Originally Posted by Sulland

Exterior: Will keep the large rear wing that they have today. Both for giving more downforce, but also to separate them from the S2000 cars.

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The big rear wing is good because the S2000 (and S1600) have a tendency to land on their nose after jumps and the big rear wing helps with that problem. One pitfall is if the design of the wing is totally free, the manufacturers will spend a lot of time in the wind tunnel and that’s not cheap.

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Originally Posted by Sulland

Implementation: They aim to implement from 2010, and since the last version of todays WR Car will get homologated in 09, they will be allowed in the championship in 2010 in de tuned version, for non prioritized drivers, but not in 2011.

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What will happen to all the WRC cars, obsolete?

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Originally Posted by OldF

This would mean a quite standard engine like N4 nowadays. It would be nice if there were an option for the manufacturer to use a NA engine (2,5 l- 3,0 l) also. Not all manufacturers have a 2,5 l engine in it’s program but I think for the price of a turbo a 2,8 l – 3,2 l engine could be downsized to a 2,5 l.

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Thing is it's cheaper to get power out of an engine with a turbo than it is to tune a bigger engine. At least in terms of a competition car :)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Thing is it's cheaper to get power out of an engine with a turbo than it is to tune a bigger engine. At least in terms of a competition car :)

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At least it’s easier to get more power from an engine with a turbo but in this case if the power is restricted to 270-280 hp, I don’t think a 2,5 l or 3,0 l NA engine has to be tuned so much to get the same power. A S2000 engine has to been modified anyway (compression ratio etc.) when a turbo is added.

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Originally Posted by OldF

At least it’s easier to get more power from an engine with a turbo but in this case if the power is restricted to 270-280 hp, I don’t think a 2,5 l or 3,0 l NA engine has to be tuned so much to get the same power. A S2000 engine has to been modified anyway (compression ratio etc.) when a turbo is added.

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I think a turbo is still cheaper :)

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Originally Posted by OldF

This would mean a quite standard engine like N4 nowadays. It would be nice if there were an option for the manufacturer to use a NA engine (2,5 l- 3,0 l) also. Not all manufacturers have a 2,5 l engine in it’s program but I think for the price of a turbo a 2,8 l – 3,2 l engine could be downsized to a 2,5 l.

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I think it would be great to see a variety of different configurations of engine competing against each other, so long as they were equivalent. a 2.5L or 2.8L NA engine might even suit some manufacturers' marketing better than a 2.0L turbo.

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Originally Posted by OldF

The big rear wing is good because the S2000 (and S1600) have a tendency to land on their nose after jumps and the big rear wing helps with that problem. One pitfall is if the design of the wing is totally free, the manufacturers will spend a lot of time in the wind tunnel and that’s not cheap.

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Not only do the WRC rear wings cost a lot do develop, but IMO they're ugly. At least you can imagine a S1600/S2000 rear wing on a road car.

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Originally Posted by OldF

What will happen to all the WRC cars, obsolete?

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I'm imagining hillclimbs, rallycross, etc., like the group Bs when they were banned from the WRC. Plus, they'll probably still be legal in some national championships.

Having seen the article in Autosport, I am quite hopeful about the future. I just hope it attracts a good number of Manufacturers, and some new ones.

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Originally Posted by LeonBrooke

I think it would be great to see a variety of different configurations of engine competing against each other, so long as they were equivalent. a 2.5L or 2.8L NA engine might even suit some manufacturers' marketing better than a 2.0L turbo.



Not only do the WRC rear wings cost a lot do develop, but IMO they're ugly. At least you can imagine a S1600/S2000 rear wing on a road car.



I'm imagining hillclimbs, rallycross, etc., like the group Bs when they were banned from the WRC. Plus, they'll probably still be legal in some national championships.

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I would like to see a variety of different configurations- it can get boring listening to the same 'strangled fart' sound. At Epynt yesterday there were all kinds of engines and sounds. It would be nice if the WRC was ike this.
I'd like to go further though and see a variety of transmission configurations, i;e 4WD, FWD, RWD. So a 4WD car would have les power than FWD/RWD, but obviously superior traction. Whereas a FWD/RWD would have a lot more power but less traction. But I know this won't happen- it was remembering Ragnotti against the Lancia Deltas in Portugal in 1987 got me thinking.