Singapore 2008: Briatore and Symmonds resign

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Originally Posted by truefan72

running and hiding from a discussion while lounging in your own echo chamber is why folks find it hard to take you serious. It seems that whenever you get called out, your embarrassment leads you to insult, anger and then hide(..erm ignore list) rather than a sensible discussion of a difference in opinion. If you can't handle a discussion with different views then why bother coming here. You might be better off writing your own F1 blog and then reading it to yourself. Because no one here is interested in reading your opinions if you think this forum is not big enough for you to handle dissenting arguments. Just man up ioan instead of picking fights and adding everyone to the ignore list.

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You know what I don't like?
That instead of discussing the matter at hand you all find it more interesting to judge me as if I was the subject of the thread.
Can't you guys stick at discussing Singapore 2008 instead of this mud play? It's really tiring that I can't have a discussion without you trying to prove something about me. :\

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Originally Posted by ioan

You know what I don't like?
That instead of discussing the matter at hand you all find it more interesting to judge me as if I was the subject of the thread.
Can't you guys stick at discussing Singapore 2008 instead of this mud play? It's really tiring that I can't have a discussion without you trying to prove something about me. :\

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so how about you reply to my post then, assuming you can read it, regarding the dangers of accident debris and a stricken car on a live race track.

i have watched the crash back on youtube, he hits both walls and more than one wheel could easily have been left on the racing line in an acceleration zone, never mind the carbon fibre shards for punctures and other pieces of debirs. whilst Nelson might have been able to prefect a minor accident without hurting himself, the risk of F1 car vs concrete wall is stiull there, never mind the other 19 cars racing at ful speed. it also loked like an unsighted corner so it would give drivers very little time to react to a bouncing wheel or something else in their path. to purposefully create this situation is at least negligent and at worst criminal - both for Piqeut for being part of and going through with teh plan, and Renault for creating and ordering it. of course assuming that they can prove anything, which i doubt.

but to say it wasn't dangerous to stage an accident in the middle of a live race, leaving debris and a car on track is pushing it a little IMO

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Originally Posted by ioan

OK. no one cares for those stuntmen's health, but cry about Piquet being in danger in what is the safest race car on earth.

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There was somebody on another (now closed) thread banging on about how no amount of risk was acceptable and how F1 should consider enclosed cockpits and all manner of upgrades to eliminate all potential harm.

That doesn't fit with your view that deliberately crashing at 100mph would be ok.

Thank goodness it wasn't you making the argument for reducing risk.

Oh... hang on.... :dozey:

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Originally Posted by ioan

Secondly IF he was asked to crash the car than he was doing it consciously and was in control of what he was doing.

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Presumably you also think he was in control of any flying debris, and could accurately predict the actions of the other drivers arriving on the crash scene? Blimey, he's better than any of us gave him credit for. :rolleyes:

Good lord. Hypocrisy thy name is ioan.

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Originally Posted by ioan

You know what I don't like?
That instead of discussing the matter at hand you all find it more interesting to judge me as if I was the subject of the thread.
Can't you guys stick at discussing Singapore 2008 instead of this mud play? It's really tiring that I can't have a discussion without you trying to prove something about me. :\

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ioan the problem is whenever folks want to discuss the matter, you take it as a threat to you intelligence or something and more often than not lash out with insults or belittling comments. That makes it hard to keep the discussion on course. At some point you've got to as yourself if maybe, just maybe , the tone of your comments might be a contributing factor in prevailing notions about you on this forum and in discussions. Believe me you don't get to 17,000+ post without having something valuable to contribute but as long as I've been on here, it seems that your good points are often lost by the manner of your response, lack of it or unwillingness to accept a valid alternative to a point you made. It is up to you to parse your words more carefully and treat other members more carefully no matter how outlandish you think their comments are. Nothing wrong with the odd snark remark here and there, or to call out individual posts for what they are, but when you make it a habit of doing so then it becomes bothersome.

Anyway, lets get back to the discussion, before pino shuts this thread down :)

Just to draw a line under this. I have to say that personally I quite enjoy talking with Ioan, we don't agree on everything (who does) but I have always respected his passion and knowledge of the sport.

Anyway I guess he won't see this (is that how ignore works? Never used it myself) so I guess we can just carry on with our wild speculation about Piquet jnr. ;)

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Originally Posted by Sonic

Just to draw a line under this. I have to say that personally I quite enjoy talking with Ioan, we don't agree on everything (who does) but I have always respected his passion and knowledge of the sport.

Anyway I guess he won't see this (is that how ignore works? Never used it myself) so I guess we can just carry on with our wild speculation about Piquet jnr. ;)

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It is easy to get carried away when writing on a forum. I have conversed with Ioan via email on occasion for whatever reason and he is a very affable gentleman.

My father, I can assure you, has been banned from more political forums than you can shake a stick at, and he (yes, I am biased) is a very nice chap!!! ;) .....

So, you see, you do not necessarily see the real people on here.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Presumably you also think he was in control of any flying debris, and could accurately predict the actions of the other drivers arriving on the crash scene? Blimey, he's better than any of us gave him credit for. :rolleyes:

Good lord. Hypocrisy thy name is ioan.

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Let's make a thing clear, I was answering a post that stated that Piquet's life was in danger. I think it wasn't. You and some others are taking things out of context and twisting it around in order to start your personal wars instead of discussing the topic of the thread. I'm not going to take part in these kindergarten wars. See you in a serious discussion.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

ioan the problem is whenever folks want to discuss the matter, you take it as a threat to you intelligence or something and more often than not lash out with insults or belittling comments.

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Where did I insult anyone in these last exchanges?!
As I see it the problem is that you and some others are talking about me instead of sticking to the the thread's subject. :\

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Ioan, nobody has been found guilty yet.

There has been an allegation, and Renault have been called to answer a charge.

That does not mean jack. It certainly does not mean Renault have cheated, therefore nobody should state that they have cheated.

After the WMSC, then we will know. Until then, there is the basic fair principle of innocent until proven.

We don't know what "proof" there is. If any.

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And am I the only one who believes a Piquet is capable of lying? Deceit and self-promotion may well be hereditary - they get taken with the morning corn flakes if not in the DNA. Yes, this would also rebound to Nelsinho, but getting even with Flavio and Renault may outweight the risk. Besides, he may have cut a deal to minimize his penalty in exchange for "telling his story" about Renault.

If Nelsinho is the only source, I don't consider this allegation remotely credible. If Renault is penalized based solely on his testimony, the hearing is just a show trial.

ClarkFan