It's time to screw Russia over

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Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz

Russia has just recognized the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, thus completing what the West started in Kosovo: destroying the world order that had existed since WWII. Hold tight guys, we are in for a big turmoil.

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This could get nasty!


Anyone has knowledge of a vacant place in a scientific expedition to the South Pole, for a few years at least?! I'll be happy to join. :D

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Originally Posted by janneppi

All it takes is a bit ethnic prejudice and a charismatic nutcase and things go to the toilet in five years. :)

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You're very optimistic, sometimes a few months are more than enough.

The sad thing about this is that Russia presents little military threat, except to smaller countries with small armed forces — such as Georgia. Putin and Medvedev's appeal is based largely on making the Russian public think that their nation is a great power again. By managing to run riot through Georgia in this way, Russia's leaders have done something that appeals to their electoral base, providing them with more justification for anti-Western rhetoric which also goes down well — and all this based on what is in effect a lie, namely that Russia's forces are powerful and well-equipped. In the same way, without doing anything to really justify it, Russia has made the West look weak and, with particular reference to Iraq, hypocritical.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Russia has made the West look weak and, with particular reference to Iraq, hypocritical.

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Not to mention Kosovo. If the "West" can recognize Kosovo's independence, why couldn't Russia recognize independence of Southern Ossetia and Abhasia?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

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Originally Posted by Eki

Not to mention Kosovo. If the "West" can recognize Kosovo's independence, why couldn't Russia recognize independence of Southern Ossetia and Abhasia?

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I agree. I don't like Russia, but if Ossetians and Abhazians do not like to live with the Georgians, they have the right to be independent.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

I agree. I don't like Russia, but if Ossetians and Abhazians do not like to live with the Georgians, they have the right to be independent.

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And that's exactly what every bearded guerilla in the jungle or in the mountains thinks with an AK in his hand: Hell, now I can do this!

I really have a sympathy for smaller peoples who unsuccessfully tried to establish an independent state for centuries, but if everybody declares independence that will really upset the apple cart.

I think they have their own reasons why would Ossetians and Abkhazians do not like to live with the Georgians. If the independence was promoted by reasons of they are historically different and logically acceptable, then they deserve of it. What was their fault so that we do not like certain people, Russians or anything else?

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Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz

And that's exactly what every bearded guerilla in the jungle or in the mountains thinks with an AK in his hand: Hell, now I can do this!

I really have a sympathy for smaller peoples who unsuccessfully tried to establish an independent state for centuries, but if everybody declares independence that will really upset the apple cart.

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:up:

And a lot of the time there is little reason to call for independence. If your country is seriously oppressed or had a long tradition of independence interrupted forcibly, for instance, then fine.

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Originally Posted by ioan

To be honest, I think you are thinking the same way most West European politicians think, you, and implicitly them, do not know what should be done. Because of the lack of knowledge and because of the fear.

I do believe that there are few real politicians in western Europe at this moment, few people of the caliber of let's say Sir Winston Churchill.

So all they do is talk without converging towards an answer. Meanwhile the Russian get more powerful by the day. In the end we will be again saved by the USA.

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The politicians in western europe currently are all weak and pathetic. Someone like Reagan would be good now, but hey, we have Brown and Merkel, those 2 superb and successful leaders.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Armed conflict? Who said we have to go to war with them?! I'm in no way advocating for WWIII.

What I meant to say is that the western powers should realize that every time that Russia does a "Georgia" or "Tchetchenia" we should not only condemn them because they don't even care about it.
We need to punish them. Throw them out of the G8, move the Winter Olympic Games to another place than Soci, suspend the right for Russian companies to operate outside of Russia. There is a need to show them that we are not afraid even if it's not the case.

And if someone thinks that such measures would trigger a nuclear war, than they are completely wrong. Russian leaders aren't stupid, they aren't working to get fantastically rich just to destroy everything with a war they know they can't win (GB, France or Germany, any of them can win a war against Russia anytime, not to mention USA).

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Of course I agree with this, even though I would have gotten even more extreme with actions against Russia.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Those regions were not independent region that Georgia decided to take over, those are separatist regions that were not granted independence by anyone but themselves, not even by the Russians.

And there are Georgians living in those regions too, and those were under fire from the Osetian separatists.

So if we decide to put facts on the table than it's fair to put them all, not just those who support a certain POV.

And if Russia was only there for peace keeping in those 2 regions, than why did they feel the urge to go deep into Georgia, attacking and destroying the town of Gori, also attacking Tbilissi. Killing a few journalists and so on?! Do you call that peace keeping?! :rolleyes:

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Good post, again.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

Ioan, I'm not saying Russia is the innocent party here. I'm just saying its not all poor Georgia and the baddie Russia.

They're both guilty parties, all three including the SO troops.

But I'm just looking at the facts, Georgia decided to get involved, this put 70,000 odd Russian civilians at risk, they were hardly going to let this happen without taking any action. And presumably Georgia knew this, therefore provoking the conflict.

Why have Russia gone in so deep? My understand is that they've gone into Georgia to take control of certain strategic towns (such as Tbilissi) to block off any Georgian troops entering SO from the eastern and western side.

That would make sense, but again, I stress, its highly likely they have other motives. But I'm just looking at the facts, and while Russia are not innocent, far from it, Georgia are more to blame than Russia, yet only Russia is getting the bad press.

So while I understand everyone's concerns, I'm just slightly puzzled as to why no one is laying into Georgia? I'm also slightly dismayed, as I am guessing much of this is because of the media coverage, and how unfair and biased the media is and influential on peoples opinions :(

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Are you trolling?

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

Russia today announced they're moving all combat troops from Georgia.

Georgia went in and killed civilians on the 7th of August.

I'm not saying Russia is the good guy, but I'm saying Georgia isn't the good guy either.

Surely you can see the difference in how the media is portraying Russia and Georgia?

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Have you followed this topic at all, do you have any understanding of this conflict or how this came on at all?
Read some of Ioans posts.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

Can I ask your age?

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I think we all are dying to know yours too.