Rumored 2009 IC Schedule

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Originally Posted by Ken

nascar is ovalcentric

but when you have to check the schedule to see if the next race is a lefty or right it is no longer Ovalcentric

when a series adds 8 righties and drops more ovals by a 4 (or is it 5) to 1 margin than it adopts over the same span it is no longer ovalcentric....

my original question (roughly)however many pages ago was....based on the current trend of adding rights and droping lefts...at what point will it IYO (or IC's) opinion no longer be ovalcentric and why based on tha same information should there be any confidence in TG to maintain it

and the general consensus by the hooklineandsinker crwod is...'well CC and CART are BK'..

problem is the IRL now currently lloks more like those series than the original IRL....

so now what?


just becuase I'm a fan of what is happening on the track doesn't mean there can't be some concern for the leadership of the sport....does it?

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OK so YOU get to write the definition of Ovalcentric. Cue the angels, the word has been delivered. Henceforth oval centric means whatever Ken wants it to mean. The IRL is not ovalcentric per Ken's definition. Happy now? Now tell me again what that has to do with ANYTHING here or in the future? TG changed his vision. So freaking what? He said on the podium, while announcing the unification, that they (the IRL) made some mistakes. He said, in so many words, that he now wanted to be more like what CART was. So what? I still don't like the guy. I still don't forgive what the mistakes have cost the AOWR community over the years.

Now, I get a turn at writing a definition. Headline: CART and ChampCar are bankrupt.

So tell me again, how is it a problem that what we are left with looks more like what it was we both liked back prior to 1996? It sure as hell beats what things looked like two years ago or last year, when both series were on life support. It ain't 1995, I'll give you that. And the guy neither one of us wanted is at the helm. I'll give you that. But what does the obsession of the definition of ovalcentric or the obsession with King George's original vision have to do with right now?

Gary

Keep posting, Gary. I almost give up. Twenty years from now, Ken will be trying to tell us all about the "vision." Almost everyone in the sport itself -- Mario, Honda, lots of people tried to broker a truce through the years to get to one series -- and now we have it again and it really doesn't matter how that happened. So yes, I'm happy. There are far more ovals on the schedule now than CART/CC had in many years. So yes, I'm happy.

I watch TV and the boxscores and I'm happy the Cubs are doing well. My baseball fandom doesn't revolve around what Bud Selig does.

And the idea that CART/CC fans didn't watch IRL races is ludicrous, Rex. Look at past threads at CW. They didn't get the information to post their criticisms by NOT watching the races. And where the 17 percent comes from, how could anyone ever tell?

Ken, you're concerned about leadership. Well, the leadership you weren't concerned with is gone, failed, departed, bankrupt, quit.

Enough.

If you want a Nascar version of "ovalcentric" then you have it, it's Nascar. My definition (I know it's not Ken's magical definition so it's not worth much) would be to half at least half ovals. I personally would like more than that. I would also like the engine deal to go back to what it was before Honda and Toyota. I personally would like pretty much everthing to go back to the way it was in the IRL in '98-'99, but add a couple of good road courses (I'm probably the only one here that would argue that was the best thing going). Of course I'm not in charge, and unless I'm mistaken none of us here are either. So we have to make do with what we have. This constant b!tching and moaning about everything TG does just because it is TG is pointless.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

If you want a Nascar version of "ovalcentric" then you have it, it's Nascar. My definition (I know it's not Ken's magical definition so it's not worth much) would be to half at least half ovals. I personally would like more than that. I would also like the engine deal to go back to what it was before Honda and Toyota. I personally would like pretty much everthing to go back to the way it was in the IRL in '98-'99, but add a couple of good road courses (I'm probably the only one here that would argue that was the best thing going). Of course I'm not in charge, and unless I'm mistaken none of us here are either. So we have to make do with what we have. This constant b!tching and moaning about everything TG does just because it is TG is pointless.

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I thought this was a discussion forum

Guess I'm wrong

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Originally Posted by garyshell

OK so YOU get to write the definition of Ovalcentric. Cue the angels, the word has been delivered. Henceforth oval centric means whatever Ken wants it to mean. The IRL is not ovalcentric per Ken's definition. Happy now? Now tell me again what that has to do with ANYTHING here or in the future? TG changed his vision. So freaking what? He said on the podium, while announcing the unification, that they (the IRL) made some mistakes. He said, in so many words, that he now wanted to be more like what CART was. So what? I still don't like the guy. I still don't forgive what the mistakes have cost the AOWR community over the years.

Now, I get a turn at writing a definition. Headline: CART and ChampCar are bankrupt.

So tell me again, how is it a problem that what we are left with looks more like what it was we both liked back prior to 1996? It sure as hell beats what things looked like two years ago or last year, when both series were on life support. It ain't 1995, I'll give you that. And the guy neither one of us wanted is at the helm. I'll give you that. But what does the obsession of the definition of ovalcentric or the obsession with King George's original vision have to do with right now?

Gary

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Never said I was the guy to write the definition..... But at least I have provided some respning as to why I no longer believe it

Others just. Use a sliding scale ....... First it was 2 ..... Then 4........ Now 8

With each Addison and delition they just change the criteria


My concern: loss of more ovals only to be rplqced by streets


The more the irl resembles the cart of old is that so unreasonable

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Originally Posted by Ken

Never said I was the guy to write the definition..... But at least I have provided some respning as to why I no longer believe it

Others just. Use a sliding scale ....... First it was 2 ..... Then 4........ Now 8

With each Addison and delition they just change the criteria


My concern: loss of more ovals only to be rplqced by streets


The more the irl resembles the cart of old is that so unreasonable

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I have no idea what any of this means. Is that last line a question or a statement?

Gary

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Originally Posted by garyshell

How else can you arrive at the assumption that a large number are not watching any more?

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ABC's races dropped 4.4% last year. They are only up 4% this year. So why aren't they higher?

The schedule DOES reflect, in the area of ovals and road courses, a similarity to CART in the early to mid-'80s. Nobody ever said it wouldn't when it got to be one series. So what?

But the structure is sure different.

Car owners don't own it, the public doesn't own it and one entity is in charge and Barnhart has been very careful about keeping in communication with all the teams and manufacturers on what's being thought about and soliciting input from the teams and is well-respected for doing so. THEN he makes his call and everyone goes down the road.

It doesn't require board meetings and lobbying and worrying about stock prices and such. THAT is a plus.

IMO, Loudon will probably be on the schedule in 2010. As SMI and ISC need to hold more events and build them up in a bad economy to show a good profit to public shareholders, they're going to need to do it with IRL shows as it grows around and with them.

I do NOT foresee another street racing craze because Pook, then CC, used all that up. No, it's not gonna be High Point, N.C. I very much doubt Mexico City. And Surfers is on a one-year deal at this point. And yes, along the way, Homestead isn't going to make too much sense unless ISC makes a move on Fontana, Phoenix and/or Michigan.

There are a lot of economic and strategic things involved in a schedule that we don't know about. Do we know Nashville and the IRL couldn't strike a bargain? Yes. Do we know what Nashville offered to pay for the show? No. Do we know what the IRL asked for the show? No.

Chicken Little didn't get famous by saying the sky was going to stay up.

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Originally Posted by indycool

The schedule DOES reflect, in the area of ovals and road courses, a similarity to CART in the early to mid-'80s. Nobody ever said it wouldn't when it got to be one series. So what?

But the structure is sure different.

Car owners don't own it, the public doesn't own it and one entity is in charge and Barnhart has been very careful about keeping in communication with all the teams and manufacturers on what's being thought about and soliciting input from the teams and is well-respected for doing so. THEN he makes his call and everyone goes down the road.

It doesn't require board meetings and lobbying and worrying about stock prices and such. THAT is a plus.

IMO, Loudon will probably be on the schedule in 2010. As SMI and ISC need to hold more events and build them up in a bad economy to show a good profit to public shareholders, they're going to need to do it with IRL shows as it grows around and with them.

I do NOT foresee another street racing craze because Pook, then CC, used all that up. No, it's not gonna be High Point, N.C. I very much doubt Mexico City. And Surfers is on a one-year deal at this point. And yes, along the way, Homestead isn't going to make too much sense unless ISC makes a move on Fontana, Phoenix and/or Michigan.

There are a lot of economic and strategic things involved in a schedule that we don't know about. Do we know Nashville and the IRL couldn't strike a bargain? Yes. Do we know what Nashville offered to pay for the show? No. Do we know what the IRL asked for the show? No.

Chicken Little didn't get famous by saying the sky was going to stay up.

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Well,

I for one, am not very impressed!!

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Originally Posted by Ken

Never said I was the guy to write the definition..... But at least I have provided some respning as to why I no longer believe it

Others just. Use a sliding scale ....... First it was 2 ..... Then 4........ Now 8

With each Addison and delition they just change the criteria


My concern: loss of more ovals only to be rplqced by streets


The more the irl resembles the cart of old is that so unreasonable

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my apologies gary.....I was posting on the fly from my phone

here's a recap...

I never said i was the guy to define ovalcentricty.....but at least I have presented a reasoned response as to why i believe it no longer is...

what I have gotten form IC and few others like DD....is a slideing scale...first 2 rights were Ok...then four...now 8..

so i have asked all along ....when will it no longer be ovalcentric ...opinions are fine....again slideing scale...and in DD case...doesn't matter CART is bankrupt...w ell that's not answer

with each Oval deletion and street addition they just change the criteria...



I am happy with the current schedule.... but over the last 5 or 6 years we have seen 9 (or is it 11?) ovals get dropped...and in the past 3 yeras the addition of 8 street raod coarses... mix in the rumors: dodger stadium, Biloxi, Turks, San antonio, Palm springs etc....

again Im more than satisfied with the current mix..... a few more of each would be great......problem is Viable ready to run Ovals with willing promotors are being skipped over


so based on CURRENT ( that's right CURRENT)trends...why should I be confident the IRL isn't headed down the same road as Cart/CC and continue replacing Ovals with Rights?


you know what answer I have been Given gary

A) 'I believe TG is committed to Ovalcentricity' ..... well based on whats been happening the past 3 yeras that doesn't appear to be the case


and

B) ' well it's till more than CART has, there Bankrupt"..... which of coarse is no answer at all.... is it?


more and more the current IRL resembles CART/CC..... is finding that a concern so unresonable?