The Ferrari thread !

It looks like Fred the wonder boy Alonso had an engine advantage over Felipe. According to the FIA report both drivers were told to turn down their engines and shortly after Alonso was allowed to turn his back up. Felipe was never told to do the same. :D

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86508

"The report also revealed that a few laps before the radio communication where Rob Smedley informed Massa that Alonso was faster than him, both drivers had been ordered to turn their engines down – before the Spaniard was allowed to turn his up again.

"Alonso increased his engine speed without Mr Felipe Massa's being informed," revealed the FIA document. "Mr Fernando Alonso was therefore benefiting from a definite performance advantage over Mr Felipe Massa in the moments preceding the contentious overtaking."

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

They have been fined for an infringement of Article 39.1, a decision subsequently upheld by the WMSC despite the FIA President confirming there was no evidence.

The FIA should be very grateful that Ferrari have not taken further legal action, as it is evident that the guilty verdict is wholly without basis. No evidence means that. No matter what some people think, as thoughts are not evidence. Hard facts are, and it is confirmed there were none.

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Sorry but the WMSC said:

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"It is undeniable that the race result would have been different had the contentious instruction not been issued to Mr Felipe Massa," said the FIA.

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They also said that Felipe slowed down without an obvious reason to do so. This has nothing to do with having his engine turned down or Alonso turning his up but that he actually slowed!

The WMSC also said that the only reason Alonso was faster was because he had been told to turn his engine up prior to the pass where Massa was not. They deemed that Ferrari's claim that Alonso was faster didn't hold up until he was allowed to turn his engine up.

By looking at all the facts, the WMSC concluded that Ferrari had committed a breach of BOTH 39.1 and 151 (c).

Todt was not chairing the meeting and offered an opinion to the BBC including that in his opinion, Ferrari had used team orders, a view that was confirmed by the WMSC ruling and the subsequent fine and awarding of costs against Ferrari. However, Todts opinion is inadmissible in this case as it was not part of the ruling. Lets stick to facts and not opinions.

At no time did Todt, the WMSC, FIA or Stewards say there was no evidence and the only reason that Ferrari weren't punished further is because they cooperated fully and because of the ambiguity of the rule itself.

I think we should do the decent thing now and realise the lawyers at Ferrari know a hell of a lot more than either of us and if it was so easy to avoid over $100,000 penalty and costs, would have done it.

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Originally Posted by Rodster

It looks like Fred the wonder boy Alonso had an engine advantage over Felipe. According to the FIA report both drivers were told to turn down their engines and shortly after Alonso was allowed to turn his back up. Felipe was never told to do the same. :D

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86508

"The report also revealed that a few laps before the radio communication where Rob Smedley informed Massa that Alonso was faster than him, both drivers had been ordered to turn their engines down – before the Spaniard was allowed to turn his up again.

"Alonso increased his engine speed without Mr Felipe Massa's being informed," revealed the FIA document. "Mr Fernando Alonso was therefore benefiting from a definite performance advantage over Mr Felipe Massa in the moments preceding the contentious overtaking."

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Looks like Ferrari took a leaf out of Red Bull's book as that's what Red Bull did to Webber in Turkey. They told him to turn his engine down and Vettel to turn his up. The only difference being that Red Bull forgot to take into account the fact that Vettel can't pass another car without hitting it even if you handed him a map and a GPS system. Turned out to be a case of handbags at noon after that.

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

Looks like Ferrari took a leaf out of Red Bull's book as that's what Red Bull did to Webber in Turkey. They told him to turn his engine down and Vettel to turn his up. The only difference being that Red Bull forgot to take into account the fact that Vettel can't pass another car without hitting it even if you handed him a map and a GPS system. Turned out to be a case of handbags at noon after that.

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ROFL, i've said it elsewhere if it was Mark in Felipe's seat i'm sure he would have told his race engineer to f-off.

I like Mark as a driver, next to Felipe he's my favorite because anyone who can getaway with calling Nico Rosberg "Britney Spears" is ok in my book. :D

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Originally Posted by ioan

According to the FIA they did. Who's the governing body?!

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In these matters? It is Bernie.

The case yesterday was the finishing event - during the past weeks much has gone on behind the scenes because Bernie will rightly not tolerate such a stupid case and, the timing - days before Monza 2010.

Only an insane person would have wanted a different outcome because then they cannot claim to love f1.

And anyone believing that Jean Todt would not move heaven and earth to free Ferrari from such tyrrany, is really mistaken.

In addition, over such a minor issue, upsetting Montezemolo after the horrible upheavals we had last year, was just not on.

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Originally Posted by skc

Sorry but the WMSC said:



They also said that Felipe slowed down without an obvious reason to do so. This has nothing to do with having his engine turned down or Alonso turning his up but that he actually slowed!

The WMSC also said that the only reason Alonso was faster was because he had been told to turn his engine up prior to the pass where Massa was not. They deemed that Ferrari's claim that Alonso was faster didn't hold up until he was allowed to turn his engine up.

By looking at all the facts, the WMSC concluded that Ferrari had committed a breach of BOTH 39.1 and 151 (c).

Todt was not chairing the meeting and offered an opinion to the BBC including that in his opinion, Ferrari had used team orders, a view that was confirmed by the WMSC ruling and the subsequent fine and awarding of costs against Ferrari. However, Todts opinion is inadmissible in this case as it was not part of the ruling. Lets stick to facts and not opinions.

At no time did Todt, the WMSC, FIA or Stewards say there was no evidence and the only reason that Ferrari weren't punished further is because they cooperated fully and because of the ambiguity of the rule itself.

I think we should do the decent thing now and realise the lawyers at Ferrari know a hell of a lot more than either of us and if it was so easy to avoid over $100,000 penalty and costs, would have done it.

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Great post. I was wondering how Todt's opinion on the matter even came into the picture. It is like asking a bystander at a court state that they don't agree with the decision of the court.

As for Alonso, at least now we know where he gets his 6/10ths. Even then he sometimes can get the best of the apparently sometimes crippled by his team Felipe.

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Ferrari have not been fined for bringing the sport into disrepute.

They have been fined for an infringement of Article 39.1, a decision subsequently upheld by the WMSC despite the FIA President confirming there was no evidence.

The FIA should be very grateful that Ferrari have not taken further legal action, as it is evident that the guilty verdict is wholly without basis. No evidence means that. No matter what some people think, as thoughts are not evidence. Hard facts are, and it is confirmed there were none.

As for bringing the sport into disrepute? Ferrari were charged by the Stewards and this is the reason the WMSC was called, yet no verdict was reached. That means that Ferrari were not guilty.

And, for anyone interested in real law, just because a team signs up to a Concorde Agreement does not mean that this agreement takes precedence over Civil law. An organisation cannot ignore the higher authority of the jurisdiction of the state in which it is based.

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You are so right, noone force ferrari to obey the sporting regulation they signed until 2012, except FIA. How often does a decision from for example a fotball game being examinated in a civil court?

If you don´t understand, or don´t want to, there´s no meaning to discuss.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Getting your seat paid for by a bank doesn't equal being better than the driver who was bought out.

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Unless you are the one running (or paying for) the team!

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

Looks like Ferrari took a leaf out of Red Bull's book as that's what Red Bull did to Webber in Turkey. They told him to turn his engine down and Vettel to turn his up. The only difference being that Red Bull forgot to take into account the fact that Vettel can't pass another car without hitting it even if you handed him a map and a GPS system. Turned out to be a case of handbags at noon after that.

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Yep. In the future, Red Bull will be saying turn your engine down and move way off the racing line! :)

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

However, the FIA press release issued today confirms that there was not enough evidence to pursue the matter further.

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Not to mention that both Frank Williams and Peter Sauber were in support of Ferrari in this matter:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=41935

When was the last time Frank supported Ferrari in a controversy? I think this whole case has let the FIA know that the team order ban is idiotic and that those who believe it stopped teams from using team orders are more than idiotic.