Can the car still be used with the ICE only if there is a red light on the hybrid ?
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Can the car still be used with the ICE only if there is a red light on the hybrid ?
NoQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
So if you get a red light like Tanak did you are out just the same ?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Only instead of 10min penalty per stage, now it's 2min
I assume a red light can mean something like the battery has a voltage leak, when i went to Ford training we dismantled a Mustang Mach-E battery that 150v leak into the frame of the battery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
This is a joke! What is the difference between 10 minutes and 2 minutes? Nothing! If it doesn't happen on the last stage of the day, you are still so behind that the only thing you can do is to compete for PS points.
A decision by committee if ever there was one.Quote:
Originally Posted by flat_right
If a tyre from the control tyre supplier fails you don't get a break....
Of it the fuel from the control fuel supplier fails...
manu's complained for nothing and fia give just gave a "diplomatic" response: you argue, we reply in your favor, nothing really changes. all happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by flat_right
Teams can take up to 2 spares with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
Fuel fails? so often.
If you run out of tyres or fuel fails, you can't drive further. That's it.
If the HY decides to go in error, the car is still able to drive.
Teams can't do anything else(to improve the system themselves) than just hope that it works. If it fails then Compact Dynamics guy says that bad luck and maybe they can drive some time back next day :D
I think we just had a big arguement a year ago about driving with just three intact tyres...nothing actually stops you from continuing, other than the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
Anyway I would have gone with notional times, but with someone inspecting the car for other damage and stewards checking onboard for possible incidents.
They need to make some simple way of totally disconnecting the hybrid system and making the car safe in the event of a red light.
It could then be driven with the ICE only for the rest of the rally.
Easiest way should be to demount the hybrid system completely :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Yeah it's not that easy unfortunately, on a road car you have a pul switch that makes the circuit breakers in the battery flip open and disconnect the battery (if they work as normal) but you still have to check that there's no voltage anywhere before you can tell if the car is safe
I think when we will be back in Croatia Rally and someone asks Tänak about this decision, he will give some ironic answer like "best decision ever" or "what a well spent time in that meeting".
Finally a good way to decide road order :D
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc...ne-road-order/
Good april 1 joke:DQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Any further news or announcement, or has this been quietly brushed under the rug?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
Updated regional regs published yesterday:Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
"FIA GLOBAL RALLY RANKING
Deleted"
Now it's official.
Oliver Solberg
"Great news to start the week! As you know we won’t be driving the Rally1 car at Rally de Portugal ���� so instead we will be competing in a Hyundai i20 N Rally2 in a Monster Energy-backed entry so we can keep building experience and get as many kms as we can to prepare for the future! ��
This is a ‘bonus’ entry for us and we’re really thankful for Hyundai Motorsport and everyone’s support to make this happen! ��"
Hyundai cancelled the PET in Portugal today. Rumours about big discussion with Ott (the driver that was to drive today).
He didn’t want to drive today then or what’s the issue?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
In the meanwhile, Sordo confirmed for Italy:
��*�� Here is our plan for the rally after next - the line-up for Rally Italia Sardegna ����!
1️⃣1️⃣ Thierry Neuville / Martijn Wydaeghe ����
8️⃣ Ott Tänak / Martin Järveoja ����
6️⃣ Dani Sordo / Cándido Carrera ����
“You can’t just keep turning up to the workshop and saying sorry, but this is a junior team and when we’re developing young drivers these are the difficulties we face."Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
If they had Meeke driving they'd at least be a more competitive team, while facing those difficulties. ;)
Granted he can't keep crashing, but I feel Msport have had the wrong approach with Fourmaux. Crashing in Monte is not unusual for anyone - it happens. Fourmaux in his 1st ever time in a competitive wrc car got a bit too keen hunting great stage times. Then a crash in one of the most chaotic tarmac rallies in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
The Msport press was OTT surrounding that Monte off with Fourmaux helping rebuild the car etc etc, and now he's being publicly threatened by the team over his future after 3 events (one where the car failed him iirc) . No wonder he is a bag of nerves.
I also have an issue with this approach from Msport because they're the ones who chose to give Fourmaux the drive - knowing full well he's bringing backing, he's a rookie, and he was crashing last season on tarmac. They could've given better drivers the seat instead...., if they didn't realise this might be a problem...
One possibility is that things have changed.
-During Croatia there was a clip of Ford boss getting a ride in Puma with Breen. Afterwards he said how good it was to see a team doing everything to win.
- MSport won the first rally and led manus, so the car seems competetive and the team could theoretically aim for titles.
Ford after seeing Monte results wonders why the next two rallies are "back to 2021/2020". Possibly even putting some pressure on Malcolm or getting him to wonder himself.
Bad for Fourmaux cause he definitely isn't ready to be a stable points scorer.
They have Loeb for Portugal though, so I don't see a lineup change happening. Maybe just not nominating him for manus. Would be great if they swapped him with Hutunen though, but he just had terrible rally. (I really doubt they will let Mikkelsen drive for free or even pay him).
I couldn’t help feeling that this mistake might have been one too many in this number of events. I like Fourmaux and I believe he has got the ability, but he is clearly in a perilous position now. In the article it rather reads like he will be driving something other than a Puma in Portugal, Rally2 possibly, and maybe that will be a good thing to take him out of the firing line for a rally or two.
MSport must be feeling the heat that after the Monte fanfare they have shown pretty much nothing for two rallies with what most believe to be a very good car.
I can see a safe pair of hands such as Mikkelsen getting a drive or two.
it really depends on what the "mission" was. if the mission was bringing home the car, even with bad times ( and it could have been a good strategy, just as katsuta) so it's for sure annoying for m-sport. if the mission was to show some pace at the cost of binning it, that's completely another story, but i doubt this would be the case. i think the general idea was pretty much make km with a pace similar -or challenging- greensmith. and i think this was the idea for the entire season, unless dry tarmac maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Personnally, I don’t think it’s a bad idea to give him one rally off (the discussion is not about firing him); it has already been applied for other drivers in a bad streak even if it was more experienced drivers (Duval, Meeke, Latvala) and generally, it worked (at least on the short-term).
The streak since the end of last year is very bad (even if Sweden is not his fault); with Camilli, they try another strategy and, even if there was a little improvement at one moment, it failed in the end.
The sure thing is that they cannot do as if nothing happens.
I suppose that they are also discussing with Red Bull as M-Sport can absolutely not take this decision without Red Bull agreement (financing Fourmaux program + Loeb’s drives and can also be useful in the future for other drivers). In that sense, Mikkelsen could be an option as he still has some links with Red Bull so it could avoid tensions about the Red Bull-MSport «*contract*»
Is there something wrong about how works teams choose new drivers these days? First Katsuta and Arai at Toyota, then Lefebvre and Camilli, now Fourmaux... Have they ever won anything important before joining works teams?
For example, if you look at WRC2 results from Croatia, both Lefebvre and Camilli were beaten by Rossel, Kajto, Lindholm, Gryazin and Ingram quite easily:
https://rally-base.com/2022/croatia-...61&ssGroupId=1
Arai and Katsuta can't even win a single ERC event, but were chosen for works drivers...
Not sure your comparison is right: don’t forget than since 2016 (as you’re evoking Camilli), drivers such as Rovanpera and Lappi has been launched in WRC also. Breen also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
And Camilli and Suninen were in the best drivers in WRC-2 when they were competing there (same for Tidemand). Hanninen was also a good RC2 driver even if he is a special case.
Don’t also forget that the dominant drivers in RC2 are Ostberg and Mikkelsen in the last years.
+ Arai has never been a RC1 driver, he was fired at the RC2 level after dropping in form (especially after Katsuta won WRC-2 Sweden). And we know why Katsuta has a works drive.
And also, the context was not the same when Lefebvre and Camilli were launched (an increase in the number of works seat so there was a lack of drivers whereas it is the contrary now).
Also the example you’re taking about Croatia is not good has Camilli and Lefebvre had issues and punctures (as in Monte-Carlo, they were among the best in terms of pure speed).
The only point I really agree with you is that there is at least two drivers that are clearly interesting for having a chance at RC1 level for next year if they confirm their potential in 2022: Rossel and Lindholm. Before end of last year, they were a little short in terms of rhythm for Rossel and consistency for Lindholm but, now, they seem much better. So clearly I hope they can obtain at least a 6-7 rounds RC1 program next year.
Other drivers sound not that convincing comparing with their experience (Gryazin, Ingram, ...) or too much of a prospect (Cais, Linnamae, ...). I don’t talk about Kajto who is too old (and not the best RC2 driver).
But Lappi was already Finnish, European and WRC2 champion when he was hired by Toyota. That's the difference that I wanted to point out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
When you say "it worked", define "worked"? All of those drivers can be described as having had massive potential, huge speed, great opportunities, and... careers littered with failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
Not one of them made the most of the chances and cars they had access to. All of them were put under immense pressure for their perceived weaknesses, and shared habit of turning their cars into expensive paperweights. Even if being made to sit out a rally or two had the positive effect to 'fire them up' briefly, I'd argue that in the long run it did more damage than good. They all seemed to be trying too hard, too often - and tended to crack when the pressure started to build.
The only driver you could truly say responded well to a period of adversity and being made to take a step back is Ott Tanak. And he was PROPERLY benched, down into national rallies, before he started to get his act together... that was a Malcolm decision, maybe we shouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens to Fourmaux.
It is why I added «*at least on short-term*»Quote:
Originally Posted by ouvreur
- Duval, before his two-rally ban by Citroen, did one 4th place and 5 bad results (retirement or out of top 10). In the last 8 rounds of this year, he did one win, three 2nd place and only one result out of the points (retirement)
- Latvala, first 4 rallies: 1 win, 2 retirements and one 13th position before his one-rally ban by M-Sport. In the last 8 rounds, he did 6 podiums including one win and only one results out of top 10.
- Meeke is less spectacular but before his one rally-ban in 2017, he did one win (only result in top 10), 4 retirements and two results out of top 10. In the last 5 rallyes of the season, he did one win, three other results 7-8th place and only one retirement.
So yeah, on a short-term approach, it worked and they improved their result.
But then, on the long-term approach, if they don’t have a championship-material mind (or acquire it), it changes nothing. It’s not because of a one-rally ban that they were not world champion.
I don’t say a one-rally ban is a miracle solution; but I say it could help to drop pression and improve results after that. With Camilli, they try another solution and it failed, even with a small improvement in the middle of the season.
The other solution is to fire him completly (at least from RC1); but it sounds too radical at this stage all the more with Red Bull backing (maybe the question will be valuable at the end of the season).
So, it seems Tanak missed the team tests, but the discussion is if Fourmaux could get the boot?
The issue is that if you take a look to the last ERC and WRC-2 champions, they don’t have the same pedigree than Lappi generallyQuote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Kajto - already quite old when he wins his 1st title
Lukyanuk - even older
Kopecky - the same
Ingram - ok, he was younger but he wins his title with no rally win which is a little annoying when we know WRC-2 level is globally higher than ERC (I insist on the «*globally*» term, I don’t say all drivers in all contexts)
Mikkelsen - already a former WRC driver
Ostberg - the same
Rovanpera - is in Toyota
Tidemand - could have had a better chance I recognize (but he completly drops after his WRC exit)
So yeah, to launch a new driver nowadays, you have to take some risks because there are much good experienced drivers in support categories at world or European levels (or young drivers have more difficulties to beat them depending on we saw it).
Elfyn Evans was also dropped to an R5 car in the British Rally Championship and has come back to the very top level.Quote:
Originally Posted by ouvreur
Re Fourmaux, he has a lot more pressure to produce than the likes of Katsuta and Solberg.
Wow, this is very interesting wording from Millener. Basically goes from 0 to 100 and back. Also the fact that he said many things, but at the same time said basically nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
This is a bit alarming to me, and might also show that they have absolutely no idea what to do with him, and how to correct the situation.
Rossel and Lindholm over Gryazin and Ingram? Based on what? On results in Croatia?Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405