27th Kennards Hire Rally Australia 2018 • 15-18 November

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16th November 2018, 15:18
Tauri_J

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderem

Didn't Ogier got penalized for touching a chicane in Mexico? Seems a bit double standard now...

it was a power stage

anyway chicanes are a discrace especially in a gravel rally
16th November 2018, 15:24
Gregor-y

Quote:

Originally Posted by GravelBen

Oof, that was a solid impact!

Would have been a lot more solid if that hay bale wasn't in front of the tree, though. Good job by the Clerk or at least someone on the team.
16th November 2018, 15:41
mknight

Just watched the official day 1 highlights, some epic tractor-censorship going on there:
- Not a single word about tractor when showing the off, onboard starts just after passing it
- Interview with Mikkelsen in service is cut off on the start where he talks about it so it starts mid-sentence with "... basically we crashed"
- in addition the onboard is off course not uploaded on WRC+, so the only place to see it is on Alllive which will get deleted on monday or here: https://youtu.be/SGwgcCK9VPs and neither of those versions shows the marshal before the chicane

I sure get they censor stuff like the monte crash in 2017. But nobody was injured here and it arguably wasn't very dangerous (certainly much less than those crazy vids from Spain SD).
16th November 2018, 15:57
Fast Eddie WRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by mknight

Just watched the official day 1 highlights, some epic tractor-censorship going on there:
- Not a single word about tractor when showing the off, onboard starts just after passing it
- Interview with Mikkelsen in service is cut off on the start where he talks about it so it starts mid-sentence with "... basically we crashed"
- in addition the onboard is off course not uploaded on WRC+, so the only place to see it is on

I sure get they censor stuff like the monte crash in 2017. But nobody was injured here and it arguably wasn't very dangerous (certainly much less than those crazy vids from Spain SD).

Yep, you wouldnt know anything had happened if it weren't for fans posting info and pics on social media.

Noticed there's no OB for Mikkelsen on SS3 on WRC+.

There was no comment from Latvala at the stage end either after hitting the chicane ?
16th November 2018, 16:05
mknight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

There was no comment from Latvala at the stage end either after hitting the chicane ?

He got to finish at the same time as they started showing the crash, so no comments were shown, not in the highlights of the day either.
16th November 2018, 16:07
Luijbregts

Quote:

Originally Posted by N.O.T

just realised he will be the road sweeper for tomorrow... so all is lost... potato.

Good, you woke up!!!! Good for you....
16th November 2018, 16:57
KKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHL

There's a tree a couple of meters behind that bale and on the path they were taking, they would have hit the tree if the bale wasn't there. The bale did its job in this case as it dissipated a significant amount of the energy but wasn't a full stop. The tree would have been a different story.

That bale covering massive tree stump which was Molly hit and that destroyed a car, not bale
16th November 2018, 17:01
KKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by mknight

Neuville lost time at the end of the last stage before road positions were decided. By the time it was known Paddon was already in stage. So it was not physically possible. But I doubt they would have done it even if they could.

It's more simple. Hyundai just better rally spirit team rather than all years cheating M-Sport. Ogier now not getting any respect and when win a 6th title by cheats, no driving - he lose last bits of respect, and no any farewell Citroen years could improve that.
16th November 2018, 17:07
KKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnttiL

- Will M-Sport order Serderidis to take a time penalty to drop behind Neuville in road order tomorrow?

it'snot gonna be happen. Serderidis extremely educated, and will not ruin rally for others. Complete different approach than M-sport did.
16th November 2018, 17:12
pantealex

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnttiL

- Will M-Sport order Serderidis to take a time penalty to drop behind Neuville in road order tomorrow?

Time penalties doesn´t affect road order (new rule after Ogier´s Sweden stunt)
16th November 2018, 17:16
AnttiL

Quote:

Originally Posted by pantealex

Time penalties doesn´t affect road order (new rule after Ogier´s Sweden stunt)

I mean if he just checks in late at the first stage?
16th November 2018, 17:17
KKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by mknight

- in addition the onboard is off course not uploaded on WRC+, so the only place to see it is on Alllive which will get deleted on monday or here: https://youtu.be/SGwgcCK9VPs and neither of those versions shows the marshal before the chicane

All AllLive videos still available to watch when you get subscribed to WRC+. I'm watch 2nd day Spain two days ago.
16th November 2018, 17:23
T16

Quote:

Originally Posted by KKS

It's more simple. Hyundai just better rally spirit team rather than all years cheating M-Sport. Ogier now not getting any respect and when win a 6th title by cheats, no driving - he lose last bits of respect, and no any farewell Citroen years could improve that.

How have they cheated? Why have the FIA not penalised them for this?
16th November 2018, 17:26
pantealex

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnttiL

I mean if he just checks in late at the first stage?

Then yes for that stage but for next stage he is 1st again...
16th November 2018, 17:28
AL14

Quote:

Originally Posted by KKS

It's more simple. Hyundai just better rally spirit team rather than all years cheating M-Sport. Ogier now not getting any respect and when win a 6th title by cheats, no driving - he lose last bits of respect, and no any farewell Citroen years could improve that.

When did he cheat?
16th November 2018, 17:31
KKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by T16

How have they cheated? Why have the FIA not penalised them for this?

just remember who started slow down in early days when road order was decided on straight results 1st day?
Now they slowed down every single time when Ogier couldn't drive fast by hisself and Evans and Suninen dropped position to him. all of this are cheats, not straight fight. And only one team not squeamish to use it...
16th November 2018, 17:31
AL14

Quote:

Originally Posted by KKS

just remember who started slow down in early days when road order was decided on straight results 1st day?
Now they slowed down every single time when Ogier couldn't drive fast by hisself and Evans and Suninen dropped position to him. all of this are cheats, not straight fight. And only one team not squeamish to use it...

That's completely legal team orders that have been part of motorsport for a century almost
16th November 2018, 17:31
steve.mandzij

Quote:

Originally Posted by KKS

just remember who started slow down in early days when road order was decided on straight results 1st day?
Now they slowed down every single time when Ogier couldn't drive fast by hisself and Evans and Suninen dropped position to him. all of this are cheats, not straight fight. And only one team not squeamish to use it...

That's not cheating though.
16th November 2018, 17:34
KKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by pantealex

Then yes for that stage but for next stage he is 1st again...

nope. He will given a standard section target time.
Normal way
TC1 08:00. target time 00:20
TC2 08:20

penalty way
TC1 08:05 +5min delay = +50sec penalty, target time 00:20
TC2 08:25 0 min delay = 0 sec penalty
16th November 2018, 17:35
KKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by AL14

That's completely legal team orders that have been part of motorsport for a century almost

too many other cheats stuff not prohibited directly. Are they allowed too?
16th November 2018, 17:42
pantealex

Quote:

Originally Posted by KKS

nope. He will given a standard section target time.
Normal way
TC1 08:00. target time 00:20
TC2 08:20

penalty way
TC1 08:05 +5min delay = +50sec penalty, target time 00:20
TC2 08:25 0 min delay = 0 sec penalty

I was talking about stage road/start positions, even you take penalty, you will be forced back to your original start position.
Rule changed after Sweden this year.
"time penalties doesn´t change road positions"

(That TC2 time is many minutes before they actually start driving SS)
16th November 2018, 17:43
stefanvv

Quote:

Originally Posted by KKS

just remember who started slow down in early days when road order was decided on straight results 1st day?
Now they slowed down every single time when Ogier couldn't drive fast by hisself and Evans and Suninen dropped position to him. all of this are cheats, not straight fight. And only one team not squeamish to use it...

Running order is mandatory, team orders are LEGAL choice.
16th November 2018, 17:45
AL14

Quote:

Originally Posted by KKS

too many other cheats stuff not prohibited directly. Are they allowed too?

If they are not prohibited they are not cheat.
16th November 2018, 17:49
KKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by pantealex

I was talking about stage road/start positions, even you take penalty, you will be forced back to your original start position.
Rule changed after Sweden this year.
"time penalties doesn´t change road positions"

(That TC2 time is many minutes before they actually start driving SS)

so if they have a huge late on a TC (20min for example) they still have same time on next TC? It mean automatically late on next TC aswell
16th November 2018, 17:58
KKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by AL14

If they are not prohibited they are not cheat.

So Toyota can rent two cars and crash for purpose into Ogier and Neuville and this was not cheat in your opinion? Or place huge rock over blind crest ... all of this not strictly prohibited. All of this, driver movements, PS road order - cheats by his nature.

But one not good team and drivers want to use them, and other take care about a sport and own reputation
16th November 2018, 18:06
steve.mandzij

Quote:

Originally Posted by KKS

So Toyota can rent two cars and crash for purpose into Ogier and Neuville and this was not cheat in your opinion? Or place huge rock over blind crest ... all of this not strictly prohibited. All of this, driver movements, PS road order - cheats by his nature.

But one not good team and drivers want to use them, and other take care about a sport and own reputation

You've gone mental all of a sudden!

Team orders are entirely legal and don't directly impact or sabotage another driver's chances at anything like placing a rock on a crest or purposely hiring cars to crash into other competitors would.

I can't believe what you're saying.
16th November 2018, 18:09
denkimi

Quote:

Originally Posted by pantealex

I was talking about stage road/start positions, even you take penalty, you will be forced back to your original start position.
Rule changed after Sweden this year.
"time penalties doesn´t change road positions"

(That TC2 time is many minutes before they actually start driving SS)

Normally tc in is 3 minutes before the start of the stage. Unless it's different in wrc rally's.

I don't see how they could switch positions without regroup. Unless they give much more time for every liaison, but that would completely upset the timing.
16th November 2018, 18:26
stefanvv

Quote:

Originally Posted by KKS

So Toyota can rent two cars and crash for purpose into Ogier and Neuville and this was not cheat in your opinion? Or place huge rock over blind crest ... all of this not strictly prohibited. All of this, driver movements, PS road order - cheats by his nature.

But one not good team and drivers want to use them, and other take care about a sport and own reputation

You've gone too far. What You're talking about equals to a crime. Just that other teams don't make it public You think they don't apply team orders? Delaying a car in the service, ordering a driver not to be faster than his teammate, that's what teams has been always used.
16th November 2018, 18:40
sonnybobiche

Quote:

Originally Posted by mknight

Just watched the official day 1 highlights, some epic tractor-censorship going on there:
- Not a single word about tractor when showing the off, onboard starts just after passing it
- Interview with Mikkelsen in service is cut off on the start where he talks about it so it starts mid-sentence with "... basically we crashed"
- in addition the onboard is off course not uploaded on WRC+, so the only place to see it is on Alllive which will get deleted on monday or here: https://youtu.be/SGwgcCK9VPs and neither of those versions shows the marshal before the chicane

Ironic. The FIA's mindless obsession with average speeds and "safety" lead them to poop out these chicanes all over the stages. The drivers inevitably crash into them because they are right in the middle of the road and, by design, they interrupt the flow of the stage. But now the FIA have a conundrum! The hay bales keep getting knocked over, altering the layout of the chicane and potentially making it even more dangerous. So they come up with a great solution: have a giant tractor put the hay bale back up before the next car comes through.

Wait, what?

I thought I was the one who didn't care about safety and wanted to see drivers die. That tractor was one of the most dangerous things I've ever seen. IT'S A MOVING TRACTOR ON A LIVE STAGE. It definitely played a role in Mikkelsen's accident, even if it was just a distraction.

Worse, the organizers, the Promoter, and the FIA Safety Tsarina all saw it happen on live TV. You would think these people who claim to be so interested in safety would immediately see the obvious danger to the next car. It's not rocket science; Red flag the stage until it's confirmed that the tractor is clear. Isn't this exactly the reason why they introduced the red flag system a couple of years ago?

But no, they did nothing. And after a minute, Becs and even Julian started acting like it never happened.

In Poland, an idiot starts driving a fire truck onto a stage + some spectators stand a bit too close for David Evans' liking and he writes two articles about how the rally is out of control and dangerous. A month later, the Promoter takes Poland off the calendar, citing safety concerns.

What are the odds Australia will get the same treatment? :stareup:
16th November 2018, 18:45
T16

Quote:

Originally Posted by KKS

just remember who started slow down in early days when road order was decided on straight results 1st day?
Now they slowed down every single time when Ogier couldn't drive fast by hisself and Evans and Suninen dropped position to him. all of this are cheats, not straight fight. And only one team not squeamish to use it...

Thanks for the reply.
How have they cheated? Why have the FIA not penalised them for this? Sorry for repeating myself.
16th November 2018, 18:49
T16

Quote:

Originally Posted by KKS

So Toyota can rent two cars and crash for purpose into Ogier and Neuville and this was not cheat in your opinion? Or place huge rock over blind crest ... all of this not strictly prohibited. All of this, driver movements, PS road order - cheats by his nature.

But one not good team and drivers want to use them, and other take care about a sport and own reputation

Are you serious?
16th November 2018, 18:51
mknight

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonnybobiche

What are the odds Australia will get the same treatment? :stareup:

Poland had warning from the year before. I don't think Australia has one from last year.
16th November 2018, 18:52
spiderem

As much as i dislike the team order and wished for a straight fight, there is indeed nothing that could attract a penalty... Dura lex sed lex, or actually the lack of lex.

Now let's move on, Day 2 is about to start and it will be epic!
16th November 2018, 18:54
T16

Am I right in thinking it starts at about 20:10 UK time tonight. Cheers.
16th November 2018, 18:58
danon

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonnybobiche

...In Poland, an idiot starts driving a fire truck onto a stage + some spectators stand a bit too close for David Evans' liking and he writes two articles about how the rally is out of control and dangerous. A month later, the Promoter takes Poland off the calendar, citing safety concerns...

https://i.postimg.cc/rsgyBQHq/deb.jpg
16th November 2018, 19:03
T16

Quote:

Originally Posted by danon

https://i.postimg.cc/rsgyBQHq/deb.jpg

Look at his fucking jacket too. He actually is Alan Partridge.
16th November 2018, 19:03
mousti

How are the conditions there? Has it rained or not?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk
16th November 2018, 19:07
EstWRC

seems to be dry as far i have seen clips from service park
16th November 2018, 19:08
eib1

@Michelin_Sport

☁️ Cloudy no rain expected this morning.
16th November 2018, 19:09
able1

well toyoda san can hire couple of ninjas to whack them both ... nothing in fia rules prohibits it :D There are unwritten rules in any Team sport , team tactics is part of it.

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