6km, 60km, what's the difference in driving?Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
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6km, 60km, what's the difference in driving?Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Is it a serious question?
Here is another example of a bigger grams difference (taking into account different drivers, different driving style, different strategy, different tire wear etc etc etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
I PESI DELLE GOMME NEL WRC TRA UNA NUOVA E UNA CONSUMATA
Dovete sapere che le macchine hanno un peso minimo obbligatorio di 1.200 kg e i commissari della FIA possono pesare le auto in qualunque momento quindi la macchina deve rispettare sempre il peso minimo. Capirete come qualunque cosa debba essere “tarata”, dalla benzina alle gomme. Proprio queste ultime, durante le prove speciali, subiscono una tale usura da arrivare a perdere qualche chilo di peso, ed ecco che la bilancia serve proprio per pesare le gomme nuove e quelle usate, per vedere le differenze.
Abbiamo fatto una prova ed è proprio così: la gomma nuova (compreso il cerchio in magnesio) pesa 24,6 kg e quella usata pesa 22,1 kg: dieci chili di differenza per le quattro gomme non sono affatto pochi quindi bisognerà tenerne conto magari quando si deve fare rifornimento di carburante e fare più benzina per compensare la perdita di peso delle gomme.
https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d9&oe=57CA5552
https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...65256754_o.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
So how do explain Camilli making such good results with such little experience?
I labor under a misunderstanding that experience must be learned--experienced in other words and I somehow thought that to do top level results in any endeavor required a LOT of experience in this case in training and/or competition.
Is he just a prodigy?
even Mozart was raised from an infant with his father guiding him...
And Mirek, droogie, I stress RELATIVE...
I don't say to drive modern current car with all the driver's aides (4wd is one thing, modern turbo engines are another, unbelievably fantastic long travel suspension is another) is EASY....It is r-e-l-a-t-i-v-e-l-y easier than a n.a. 2wd car.
(I have driven on gravel well prepped FWD, RWD and 4WD turbo cars....It is relatively easier driving a turbo motor with relatively broader power and abundant torque than a high performance, narrower powerband n.a. motor: if you do not keep the n.a. motor perfectly flat out you go nowhere fast... And be late or early on every gearchange and you are in the bottom of the results...Much easier (for my brain) to go fast with big broad power.)
I think the proof is that when there was all n.a. 2wd cars you would have never seen a man make a SS win and a handful of SS 3rds etc with only 9 gravel events total to his name.
But as always, wot da fuq do I know?
Why do You still repeat those grams? They are irrelevant and even the steward's decision mention them only as more or less curiosity. Those windows were not homologated because they had diffrent shape. Also the whole thing is clearly only a mess as the homologated window can't be fit in the actual WRC car.Quote:
Originally Posted by danon
Maybe because he is good? Look, Ogier managed to win his very first WRC stage in his his very first 4WD outing on the first stage of the event (Sweet Lamb 2008)! Before he only drove two seasons in French 206XS cup and one season in JWRC. Nothing else. It may look unbelievable but it's true. That stage was even icy mud if I remmeber so even one of the hardest conditions what You can imagine.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
About Your old cars. You can take also opposite examples. For example Belgian Didier Vanwijnsberghe. He is bloody fast with Escort Mk.II but even after two seasons he didn't manage to drive Fabia S2000 faster than his Escort so he sold it and continues with the Escort. There are more similar examples. The point is that it's perfectly irrelevant how fast somebody would be with 40 years old car. It's about how fast they are now.
Sure. If he can drive 6km slow, why wouldn't he drive 60km slow. It is even easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Because he would have no idea how much time he lost by slow driving over 60 km? Even I can quite safely guess how much time I dropped on 6 km but no way I could do that on 60 km long road. Of course Mikkelsen can judge better than me but still the risk of misjudgement is huge on a long stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Hmm, I'm not saying he knows exactly how much seconds will lose for 6km, that's impossible. Be he surely can judge his pace well enough.... If he knows how many secs/km, it is enough information for 6, 60 or 600 kms....Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
http://s5.postimg.org/n9sh4cpfr/mirek.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
From what I have read of Loeb he grew up driving on muddy, and snowy roads--with crap tires...Here in North America--although on a vastly different scale some of the guys up in Quebec in Canada are shockingly (relatively) fast on snow and especially ice (no studs then)...that's what they drive on 6 months of the year. and of course they are all absolute lunatics whenever they drive anywhere.
And true confessions when I was building that nice Ford Sierra Cosworth 4x4 that sits over <-------there next to my beloved old Saab I often wondered how results would go...what i wondered was "was I at my limit? Would I have higher Overall results? I had done some 3rd and 4th and 5th Overall with an ancient --but light and built bigger engineand freer spec than old WRC spec Saab----logically it sure seemed like I should go faster (and tests seemed to back that up) or was that speed what I could do?"
I only use Escort because as Paddon showed so well it is a simple car that has no real vices and is capable of an outright win even against a whole field of turbo 4wd cars.. It is FAST....if driven right.
Still.
Dear Danon, You don't need to show me that again. I can read and I am sure You can do that too. So please read the whole text again. The penalty is not for the weight but for the shape. The weight difference is there written most likely only to show that it was irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by danon
Had the document something to do with wrong weight, it must have contained exact values and their respective tolerances to be valid.
Tell me how much I have to slow down to loose 10 seconds on 600 km? I know how to loose 10 seconds on 6 km but I'm quite sure that nobody ever walking on this planet could know how much to slow down to loose 10 seconds on 600 km.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Just count those s/km for 6, 60 and 600 km and compare the result. I hope You then understand.
One of their cigars weigh more... http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/foru...cigar-weights/Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
If You want to be that precise then a spin on a corner will do the job. But I guess it doesn't matter if it is 10, 20 or 30 seconds for 600 kms regulating the pace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
On the contrary how do You know how You'll loose 10 seconds for 6km by pure pace, of course the chance is higher than for 600kms but it'll never happen because You're not super-human. It'll always be +- some seconds.
If weight makes no difference it won't be mentioned in the Stewards Decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
The devil is in the details - dear bohemian comrade.
Stefan, please... think about it again. That's complete nonsense what You say. Yes, You can do a spin and loose 10 seconds but the key is from which value do You need to loose it - that's not Your time but time of Your opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Please read that text again because You are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by danon
Read it I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Wrong I am not.
Grams mentioned I saw.
Long live the Empire VW.
It smells politics (change rules).
Money talks.
Grams do matter!
Ok, I'm not talking about opponent's time, just one's own one. For sure there is more precise info with split times and engineers with computers will tell You on the radio to stop for N secs before the stage end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
But if You know before the stage You have to lose min 20 secs for a 30 km stage, probably You'll know what pace will be enough to lose them. Mikkelsen had to lose today by few seconds, but lost 18+ for 6km. Isn't that odd for such a short stage, yet these were enough for his purpose.
Are we debating which is the best way to deliberately loose time on a stage now?
Of course. And as far as I see, Mirek is trying to show that it is not so easy to predict how much time you need to loose not to be first on the road next day, if there are no splits. Especially on longer stages, where you cannot predict, how fast are your rivals (because they can use tactics also)...Quote:
Originally Posted by EightGear
Huge congrats to Neuville/Gilsoul and Hyundai. Neuville is one of the best drivers around and it’s great to see him on the top again. In Portugal he looked already to be in a better mood and he reacted to the fuel problem with a strong team spirit. Hyundai’s tech work must also be praised as they’re now clearly on VW’s pace. Camilli did also a nice rally and it seems his progressing is now taking its natural course. I know Lappi isn’t much valued here, but his times in today SS’s were simply outstanding. Can’t wait to see him on a ’17 WRC car!
Btw, there was another manu involved in Sardegna. Abarth entered a small R3T 500 for the young Italian rally challenge winners, Fusio/Salgaro, and they’ve managed to take it to the final podium and win RC3 class. Quite an adventure! https://www.facebook.com/RallyItaliaTalent/
Now I know why Neuville was bloody fast...
36 grams of peanut butter (this doesn't count the spoon).
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Tg_O4hpREV.../s1600/035.JPG
From Rally de Portugal thread:
How is that now it seems Abbring was able to score manu points in this rally? Doesn't make any senseQuote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
Propkop would have been classified in 5th position if he did not get the penalty... wouldn't you be pi$$ed?
No 9-th max.Quote:
Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1
Of course is impossible to predict how much time you will loose in long stages especially but this idea can work ONLY if there are no splits and ONLY if stages are not short. I think there are too many "only if"...Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
I thought that it's forbidden.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
His team broke rules. Wouldn't others be pissed if somebody was allowed to freely brake rules?Quote:
Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1
Prokop wasn't happy lately. Since 2015 he started to ask a privateers championship and it has been denied. Then it comes new stricter rules for 2017 cars, 14 events in the calendar that meant more costs, and I think he also thinks the Fiesta is slower than other cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I think FIA and promoter do not need privates anymore and they are starting not to care to them.
I think it is good if Prokop will try something else. I don't understand why he doesn't like ERC. It is actually the perfect dimension for him, doesn't it?
Of course it is, I just use it as reference. It is not so easy to predict exact time loss no matter how long the stage is, but a driver can judge his pace well enough to lose minimum target time. Of course with longer stages it is more difficult, but my point generally is they can reach minimum target time loss, how bigger it'll really be is anyone's guess. Will he just be slow on some parts of the entire stage or just little slower on the entire stage is his preference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Broke rules? I find it more peculiar that a shape of a windowwhich even didn´t fit on that doormodel can make FIA fine 50k Euros is most unethical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
They could have said: "Hey, guys, you´ve messed this up with the scrutineer/homolgationdepartment at FIA and on Monday morning you have to fix this immediately so papers are in order next rally in Poland. Or else we have to fine you at least 5000 Euros."
To me it had looked more justice than this 50k fine for almost nothing.
The seal was broken on the rear diff when it was not allowed. It's clear violation of the rules and it's normal to expect a penalty for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
So there was more on Huyndai? Didn´t know that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Maybe he was talking about Prokop's car...
No, if you look at his time (final time) without the 5 min penalty at the end of the rally... What position would he have been?
9th, not 5th.Quote:
Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1
WIthout penalty, Prokop should be 9th.Quote:
Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1
Sorry, that was Prokop's case. I didn't read You post properly. In case of Hyundai it's more or less ridiculous mess but quite expensive...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Aren't I silly... I got the Czech names wrong!
Disregard my posts ;)
We were in Sardinia for the last 6 years in a row, this year we decided to go for Portugal.
In Portugal Neuville whithout fuel... in Sardinia victory, shame we waren't there...
Still, solid drive by Thiery, ok road position has helped him, but afternoon second pass stages were also fast.
Congrats tho them, hope the bal starts rolling again now, battling for podium / victory on all events. He does have the potential for that!
Anyone know if Sardinia wil be in 2017 WRC calendar?