LOEB
I think every team says "welcome" if he is ready to test/drive their machinery
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LOEB
I think every team says "welcome" if he is ready to test/drive their machinery
PSA might be wishing they hadn't put out that Loeb press release. It's still all the same company. Can't see why Peugeot would kick up any fuss about Loeb testing the new Citroen. Isn't it even all moving into one shared facility?
All this said - there's still surely a chance Meeke will sign with Citroen. He's just doing the logical thing and speaking to everyone. Now whoever hires him might just need to open the chequebook a bit wider. It might even mean we see more Citroens on events this year for instance.
Meeke Toy join up rumor it's great! A Meeke/Latvala/Suninen line up sounds amazing!
Meeke options in Citro are real short, as PH program seems to be very limited and Maton has already said it loud and clear: he wants Neuville in 2017!
Lefebvre can calmly work into the new car development (probably with some help from Loeb), but there's no way he'll become number one driver in 2017.
Btw, the new overall Citro/Pug/DS motorsport structure it's now complete: JM Finot (former PSA R&D president) will run it; Maton is kept as Citroen Racing principal; the same for Farmin at Peugeot Sport; Pinon (current Maton deputy) takes DS Perfomance leardship.
(In a typically french pompous way, the group motorsport arm it's now called: 'Centre Excellence Sport Automobiles PSA' ;))
It's strange. They're both part of PSA, yet sometimes they don't act like it. When it suits them they're almost separate. Loeb was doing the Dakar months ago, then as a Citroen driver, merely loaned to Peugeot. Now Citroen have dropped him, and now he's a signed up as a Peugeot Sport driver. I can only think Peugeot want the 'link' with Citroen to be broken, and aren't best pleased to see him in the other companies car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
Citroen have played 'hardball' with Meeke all along so I dont blame him for doing the same and let them know he is in demand with other teams..
And I dont think he could have done much more to prove himself in 2015.
If Citroen still want Neuville they are welcome to him after his 2015 performances.
Citroen have been very silly to not tie meeke down to a contract quickly imo (after confirming they are staying in WRC for 2017onwards). He is the fastest driver in the WRC apart from Ogier and Latvala (i think he has more raw speed atm that Andreas, who is in a better car), but more importantly Meeke is an experienced driver who has tested many cars over the years. Was involved in the DS3 testing, the peugeot and Citreon R5s, the s2000 pug and ofcourse the mini that seemed a fundamentally decent car (which was let down badly by the engine).
Citroen should have given meeke a deal for next year (at least half of the WRC events + testing) and a deal for the 2017 season. After cutting ties with Loeb, who will they have to test and develop?? Lefebvre wont bring anything to the table..
Its more bad management by Yves im afraid. Especially if Citroen expect to come back in 2017 as serious contenders. Matton's hard on for Neuville could be coming back to bite him?
As for Toyota, Meeke and Hirvonen testing the car along with Makinen does sound promising. Finally some good news coming out of that team, after months of uncertainty....
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Maybe the drivers just swap codrivers?Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
Tidemand needs a more experienced codriver, if Emil is excused. Jonas has done lots more WRC events. Good for Tidemand who´s in charge for a seat at VW in 2017.
Hmmm... is Malcolm really targeting to young guns? There was news he asked for Sirmacis phone number...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
I was a part of Fløenes split with Mikkelsen, but it didn't turn out the way I expected. So I was also a part of bringing them back together. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
Ola Fløene is a very nice guy, but he made some very untachtical interviews in the Norwegian news, he was was some what of a loose canon on deck. I also think he was loosing a little motivation, so he maybe was not the professional athlete that You need to be in a modern professional WRC team. He also made some mistakes.
I (and more with me) contacted the management and said that they should consider to do something with the situation.
The "solution" was one that I did not see coming, the hiring of Markula.
I was almost in disbelief when I heard the first inboard stage with the new pair. Markula may be a very good codriver when speaking Finnish, but he is not close to be fluent in English, so not only did Andreas need to get the pace notes in a foreign language, but read by a man that could not speak it very well.
Because of this Andreas had a low turn when it comes to work with the pace notes, that still hurts his driving. If You analyse Mikkelsens onboards You will notice among other aspects that he is not always consequent when it comes to his actions to the pace notes. A "flat" should be pedal to the metal no mather what, when You start to question if a "flat" is really a "flat", and if You heard the note correctly, You are in big trouble.
I think Andreas pointed this out, but I also think that Markula responded by saying it was Mikkelsen that was the problem. So their working relationship was not good, to put it mildly.
I also pointed these factors out to the team in a thread on the Norwegian rally forum, and I questioned the managements decision to select a codriver that doesn't speak English very good.
I got a lot of flak for that, but I also got a lot of calls from people close to Andreas, that said they where very glad some one said this out loud.
The team pointed out that I was wrong, but then they did what proved that they really thought I was right. They changed back.
Ola had in the mean time found new motivation, and he now was more the professional codriver that is expected, and Andreas and Ola found back to earlier happy days. Very good on them both.
Regarding Mikkelsens codriver in the future, I dont know how many years Fløene wants to continue, and I dont think the management knows either, so they are prepping one of Mikkelsens friends to be a future possible codriver for Andreas.
His name is Anders Jæger Synnevåg.
He started out codriving Bernt Kollevold, who works for EVEN management, in the Norwegian Rally Championship in Kollevolds Ex Petter Solberg Celica ST205. He is currently codriving Ole Christian Veiby in the JWRC.
And now off course Jonas Andersson also is contracted by EVEN management, so this means they have several options if/when Ola Fløene decides to hang up his helmet, or other things should occur.
I think the debacle around Fløenes exit and reentry learned EVEN management a lot about the importance of having a stable of codrivers, and I dont think they want to be in the same situation again. So they have worked very professionally for this not to happen.
EVEN Management has several drivers, but Mikkelsen is whit out a doubt the most important one, so he is always prioritised if something should come up, just like he should be. So dont be surprised if it ends up with Jonas Andersson or Anders Jæger Synnevåg cording Mikkelsen in a few years.
Thanks Lundefaret. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
I have just one question for you. How is it possible to lose motivation when you are going to be part of WRC?
That question to be held to Floene himself, dont you think?
If people want to listen to it the WRC Regroup podcast is out now: http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/media/podc...114--80--.html
Malcolm Wilson confirms that Camilli has a contract with M-Sport and categorically has not paid for his drive. He has a two-year deal, with M-Sport having first option on him in 2018 too. He said they had to 'work out a solution' to get him out of his TMG contract. Whatever that means.
Wilson also said that they still haven't confirmed they'll do all 14 rounds next year.
That said Tanak is doing all 14 rounds with M-Sport support and Bertelli is doing 13 rounds. So they'll always need to send people out to events.
Then I have to ask: Have You in some ways been involved in the WRC?Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
The reason I ask this, is that You can look at the WRC in many different ways.
The spectator- and TV-way where its all action and mud and speed.
Or from a workers perspective:
You travel constantly. Airports, planes, crazy hours.
You have very long hours - especially for codrivers.
The pay can vary.
You are under a lot of pressure.
You are measured all the time.
You go to the same places year after year.
You do countless hours off testing, where You go to a desolate place with low creature comforts, and work hours on end to search for millimeters and tenths. On and on.
And after doing this for years on end, You have in some sence seen it all.
These are some of the factors that can take motivation away from You.
If on top of that there is a varying level of confidence in You.
These factors can be turned both ways. They can either motivate You or they can demotivate You. And I think Ola got in a rut.
But then it all turned around.
Taking a "break", by codriving for Pontus Tideman. Winning the title. Seeing something different, from a driver in a different place. That really put the fire back in his eyes.
For those who know Ola they know that he is a very honest, likeable man, with very good intentions. Seeing that he got his mojo back was a positive experience.
I also think that this made Andreas see what Ola really was to him. Going trough a very bad period with Markula. Both of them seemed very happy when they where back together.
Andreas is maybe the driver in the WRC that has worked most on his pace notes, and practiced the most. But in my opinion I think that in this sense Andreas was more a robot carrying out the orders of the team, and that was - in my opinion - more quantity related than quality related. Andreas was tought the Petter Solberg-system, which Ola had a hand in developing. But he has never really "got it", and he hasn't been able to make it his own. And when this Markula thing happened, he really lost direction when coming to the pace notes - and he has not fully recovered from that.
I have written this before, but I will write it again, Andreas is maybe the fastest driver in the WRC if they all drove a stage they knew by hart, and he was on top form. And we have seen glimpses off that on rear occasions. But all tough his management has taken him from having to give up on rallying - when his fathers investment took a big hit in the finacial crisis off 2008 - to a factory seat in the WRC - and by that doing many things very, very good, they have also been responsible for Andreas loosing his ways a little when it comes to his driving.
Andreas at his very best is incredible, and the time he really was at his peak was in a Subaru Impreza Cup car, doing the Norwegian Championship, and also some other events in Sweden, where he drove just incredible.
Someone in the team will argue that a Impreza cup car is nothing like a WRC car, but thats just because they dont know what parameters one are judging from. The laws of physics are very much the same.
One reason was a lot of pressure going up against Ogier in an S2000 car. This put in a sense of stress in his driving that he has not really recovered from.
And by practising on braking late, and different things, they kind of trained away Andreas´s most extreme qualities.
If You see now, when Andreas is in a corner and have to fight for positions, he very often tries to get speed by braking late, and as a result this is very often a cause of going off.
He is also a lot more untidy then he used to be.
But then You see glimpses, like the power stage in his winning rally (wich in my mind is not a "true" win, since he was so far behind Ogier before the Power stage, but true wins will come), where he just is incredible. And he can win on all surfaces, if he has these moments.
So personally I am a little frustrated over this, because the management has taken him aaaalmoast to the very top, but they struggle to go the last few centimeters and make Andreas the Ogier-beater he really has the potential to be - and seeing quite clearly where his areas of improvement lie, well...
But all this proves how important a codriver can be. If Loeb never found Daniel Elena, he would still be a great rally driver, but maybe he wouldn't have kept going for so long, because Elena was a big part - and still is - of Loebs motivation.
Well yes of course but unfortunately I'm not his friend or neighbor ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
BTW many thanks to Lundefaret for having shared his insights. Now I can go sleep without this mistery torturing my mind all the nights :D.
Let's go back to topic now.
I thought that too. Still thinking Wilson is bluffing and MSport will (hopefully) do all 14 events.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
On Camilli issue, it's nice to see Wilson saying loud and clear that he's not a paying driver and having such a strong faith on the French future.
But Camilli said that his contract with TMG had ended...Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
You can listen to it and hear for yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Errr, has he?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
of course he will do all events.His clients will be there with rented cars,so his mechanics service trucks will be there.Not extra cost for him to have more cars present.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Camilli is also interviewed on the podcast, or didn't you listen to it all ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
I think maybe you need to go and listen to it again - but admittedly it's not very clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Camilli said his contract with TMG HAS finished (not had). And it sounds to me like he says they activated the clause to exit the contract. (Skip to 20:31 in the podcast). That's in line with what Malcolm said (why would he lie?). So I'm not really sure what point you're making?
For what it's worth Suninen said last month he expects to work with TMG again next season. But I don't know whether this was before Toyota told TMG to stop testing their WRC car - http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc-2/news/201...5--51-51-.html
You were the one puzzling me saying 'whatever that means' re Wilson...Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
Sounded clear enough to me from Camilli that there was no problem with him 'leaving' TMG.
Certainly no hard feelings from their side:
Toyota Motorsport GmbH 30 November:
'Good luck to Eric Camilli, who leaves TMG to join M-Sport as a full-time WRC driver for 2016. It has been a pleasure working with you this year and we wish you a fantastic future !'
No hard feelings on social media. Probably no hard feelings in real life either but they still had to 'work out a solution' to get Camilli out of his TMG deal. If the deal with TMG had already ended then there wouldn't have been any issues or anything to work out. That's all I'm saying. I don't really get why that's complicated?
What's interesting is what really is going on with TMG? What are their plans now? Do their driver contracts have anything to do with the Toyota factory? We assumed not. What do they actually get out of these development driver deals?
So Camilli isn't bringing money. He wasn't a stand out performer in WRC2 - he has showed promise, but nothing more. He'll be in a WRCar and learning from event to event. Is he really the best candidate? We'll only find out next year.
As for Toyota, TMG, Makinen.....I think its case of wait & see. I personally think Akio Toyoda has wanted a 'hands on' role with the running/ choice of the programme; rather than leaving it to TMG in Cologne.
Yep, belgian colleagues post it some time ago: http://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/m...70bccfaed0ff24Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack4688`
Maybe Toyoda motivation wasn't to have a 'hans on' role, as it seems he has given Makinen even a larger freedom.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Looking at the time frame, I'm still convinced that Toyoda got totally pissed off with another TMG Le Mans failure and realized they weren't able to run both programs properly.
On TMG's drivers contracts, like Camilli case they'll probably end in a friendly way: Sarrazin continues to be LM/WEC Toy driver (and FE Venturi); Suninen is managed by Jouhky (close to Makinen) and the Japs boys (I believe there were some linked to TMG) can be absorbed by Toyota Gazoo Racing* domestic programs.
*we've got to get used to these crappy official designation (yep, no Rally on it!) as it was adopted for all Toyota motorsport activities around the world (only US Toyota Racing doesn't use Gazoo brand...maybe because in american slang it isn't a pretty word!).
The two japanese weren't linked to TMG I think, but to TMR.
Norwegian media writes that Ola fløene is Østbergs New co-driver?
You won by 30 sec, Skarderud :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
Did not see this one coming.
So who is Mikkelsen going to choose, is then the new question?
Didn't see this one coming!
Not sure if Anders Jæger is ready...? Ole Christian Veiby's co driver who they started learning a couple of years ago for Mikkelsen to use later on.
http://www.tv2.no/2015/12/06/sport/rally/7752946
from Mads Facebook page : "Mads Østberg:
SISTE NYTT: OLA FLØENE BLIR MADS ØSTBERGS NYE KARTLESER!
#WRC #2SPORTEN M-Sport"
interesting indeed...
Are you kidding me?
Ostberg just makes me sick....
Wrong.
Why? Apparently Ola was dumped after the season, it's not like Østberg dug down his pocket and stole him if that was what you were aiming at...?Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
He was announced with Pontus a few days agoQuote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
Why the hell he tested ilka and the other dude then?
Sorry, Anders Jæger, veibys co-driver is probably Mikkelsens co-driver. News tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
When he was dumped? Didn't know thatQuote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway