New R4 Car - Think Tank

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Originally Posted by Sulland

Are there any stats on how many kits Oreca have sold per date?

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Hard to say, but Oreca states in their press release, that there are already teams working on R4 cars: "Other teams have confirmed entering different cars equipped with the R4 kit in Latin America with RC Competicion (Argentina), but also in Africa with Rally Technic (South Africa). Several programmes have emerged in Europe too: Finland (Tahkomobili), Lithuania (Pro Racing), Austria (Signed Streets Motorsport), France (Milano Racing) and so Spain (ASM Motorsport)."
via https://www.oreca.com/en/news_oreca/...pionship-2019/

RC Competicion : Toyota Etios : http://rccompeticionteam.com/2018/03...ira-primer-r4/
Rally Technic : various cars : Mazda 2, VW Polo, Toyota Yaris, Ford Fiesta, Hyundai i20 : https://www.rallytechnic.com/services
ASM Motorsport : Dacia Sandero & Ford Fiesta & Renault Clio : https://r4rallycars.com/
Signed Streets Motorsport : Audi A1 : https://www.leblogauto.com/2018/10/r...developpe.html
Pro Racing : Skoda Fabia (see above)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kure91

Hard to say, but Oreca states in their press release, that there are already teams working on R4 cars: "Other teams have confirmed entering different cars equipped with the R4 kit in Latin America with RC Competicion (Argentina), but also in Africa with Rally Technic (South Africa). Several programmes have emerged in Europe too: Finland (Tahkomobili), Lithuania (Pro Racing), Austria (Signed Streets Motorsport), France (Milano Racing) and so Spain (ASM Motorsport)."
via https://www.oreca.com/en/news_oreca/...pionship-2019/

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yet no Asians...

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Originally Posted by mArvAlcao17

yet no Asians...

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Asia Pacific has AP4..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

https://scontent.fopo1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...9c&oe=5CD2DC53

From Açores, Portugal, local ace Luis Pimentel is showing on his fb page photos of a Evolve Yaris R4; apparently he may run it on the first ERC round: https://www.facebook.com/luispimentelrally/

Portuguese federation created national championship to R4 cars.

Team Toyota Paraguay
@teamtoyotapy

We started the 2019 with new design of the Toyota #EtiosR4 #TeamToyotaParaguay #ToyotoshiSA #ToyotaGazooRacing @Toyotoshi_py #Petrobras #Lubrax #Dmack

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzmqZzMWsAAqJ6O.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzmqaS6XQAAFneE.jpg

Actually, that’s the new shape of the locally homologated Etios R5.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_sbmCKX...jpg&name=small

http://www.motoradiario.com/rallyes/...o-su-primer-r4

https://scontent.fopo3-2.fna.fbcdn.n...6d&oe=5DA1BBA6
https://scontent.fopo3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...a8&oe=5DB6C85B
https://scontent.fopo3-2.fna.fbcdn.n...71&oe=5DBE7504

I´m glad that everyone so far has chosen different models than we had in R5.

I know that Fabia and Fiesta will come sooner or later.

Riku Tahko is thinking new BMW 1-series next.

Very nice Dacia!!

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Originally Posted by pantealex

I´m glad that everyone so far has chosen different models than we had in R5.

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But... nobody drives these cars :(

Attachment 1800Attachment 1801

At Rallye Weiz as Zero car.

That A1 looks very nice as well!

Let's hope more of these cars will come into rally stages!

FIA R4 (what i know 2 months ago, should be more now)

Oreca from France
1 Toyota Etios R4

Milano Racing from France
3 Fiat MR500X R4

Rally Technic from South Africa
1 Hyundai i20 R4
(+4 kits for Hyundai i20 R4 and Mazda 2 R4)

ASM Motorsport from Spain
1 Dacia Sandero R4
(+ Dacia Sandero R4, Ford Fiesta MK8 R4, Renault Clio R4 and Audi A1 R4)

FORS Performance from France
(Renault Clio R4)

Evolve Motorsport from Poland
1 Mini Cooper S R4
1 Toyota Yaris R4
(+ Toyota Yaris R4)

Pro Racing from Lithuania
(Škoda Fabia R4)

Signed Streets Motorsport - Team WIET from Austria
1 Audi A1 R4

RMC Motorsport from Spain
(Renault Clio R4)

RC Competicion from Argentina
(Toyota Etios R4)

Great to see the Clio is on the list as well!

�� Le Team officiel Suzuki Motor Sport suspend son activité dans la catégorie N5 du Championnat Espagnol de Rallye asphalte à la fin de cette saison pour s’engager dans la catégorie R4 avec une Suzuki Swift ! Il s’engagera également sur plusieurs courses internationales grâce à l’homologation du Kit FIA R4 en WRC dès 2020 ! ��

�� Official Team Suzuki Motor Sport suspends its activity in the N5 category of the Spanish Rally Championship asphalt at the end of this season to enter the R4 category with a Suzuki Swift! The Team will also take part in several international races thanks to the eligibility of cars equipped with the FIA R4 Kit in WRC from 2020! ��

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_1xLL0X...png&name=small

https://www.suzukimotorsport.es/2019...ficial-suzuki/

Great image... would be also a great R5! :D

Another team plans Suzuki R4

https://m.facebook.com/367317247214103/posts/suzuki-swift-r4-will-be-available-as-ready-to-race-car-in-november-2019-price-18/383417288937432/

Fiat 500x R4 from Milano Racing curently holding 8th in Terre de Langres, with a nice 5th time in the last stage:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results...te-marne-2019/

ASM Motorsport Ford Fiesta MK8 R5

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_8EKhGW...pg&name=medium

Beyond to those announced (Swift, Sandero, A1, Clio, I20, Fiesta, Etios and 500x) are others planned?

New SA i20 R4 from Rally Technic
https://www.rallytechnic.com/services

https://www.facebook.com/rallytechni...type=3&theater

Attachment 1844

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ricardo Filipe Matos

Beyond to those announced (Swift, Sandero, A1, Clio, I20, Fiesta, Etios and 500x) are others planned?

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There is also Mini Cooper R4 in Finland. Finnish driver Riku Tahko was second overall in its debut in Kalpalinnan Rallisprint.

Final results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/5...lisprint-2019/

Photo:
http://www.evolve-motorsport.com/wp-...ku_isokoko.jpg

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/...adder/4554693/

Unless Evans got it wrong, or Matton is totally lost, apparently R4 may be revoked, giving room for a new 4wd entry class called Rally 3 in FIA's new 'Rally Pyramid':

Rally 3
“The home for the FIA's all-new, low-cost four-wheel drive car. The intention is to make this a current R2 car with a rear differential. Crucial to this new class is the cost of the car, which the FIA says has to be under €100,000 (£90,000). This will offer gentlemen drivers the chance to enjoy four-wheel drive in the WRC, while offering a cost-effective solution to the next generation chasing experience beyond front-wheel drive.”

It's a quite surprising move and besides all the tech and cost doubts it raises one can honestly believe, having in mind it took ages to sort out R4, that Rally 3 won't start any time soon.

Btw, the rest of the future ‘FIA Rally Pyramid’ is mainly a badge swop: Rally 5 will gather current R1 cars; Rally 4 the current R2; Rally 2 the current R5 and R1 will be the class for post-2017 WRC cars.

R2 with 4WD would be very boring car to watch I am afraid. Too badly underpowered.

Is there an online form where spectators can write into the FIA officials, writing that there are some people who do not want to watch boring 4wd R2 cars?

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Originally Posted by Sal the 2nd

No this just looks the FIA muddying the waters and realising that the R4 class never had legs in its main market, Europe.

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Probably, but to sort out a new category when R4 is still giving its first steps is quite puzzling…still hoping this is a misunderstanding and Rallye 3 will end being the current R4 Kit.

Btw, ASM Motorsport built Dacia Sandero R4 debut this wkd, getting a P2 on a sprint gravel rally, driven by Daniel Marban.

https://scontent.fopo1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...6c&oe=5E276271

Video by Max Motorsport: https://pt-pt.facebook.com/maxmotors...3214876249757/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rally Power

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/...adder/4554693/

Unless Evans got it wrong, or Matton is totally lost, apparently R4 may be revoked, giving room for a new 4wd entry class called Rally 3 in FIA's new 'Rally Pyramid':

Rally 3
“The home for the FIA's all-new, low-cost four-wheel drive car. The intention is to make this a current R2 car with a rear differential. Crucial to this new class is the cost of the car, which the FIA says has to be under €100,000 (£90,000). This will offer gentlemen drivers the chance to enjoy four-wheel drive in the WRC, while offering a cost-effective solution to the next generation chasing experience beyond front-wheel drive.”

It's a quite surprising move and besides all the tech and cost doubts it raises one can honestly believe, having in mind it took ages to sort out R4, that Rally 3 won't start any time soon.

Btw, the rest of the future ‘FIA Rally Pyramid’ is mainly a badge swop: Rally 5 will gather current R1 cars; Rally 4 the current R2; Rally 2 the current R5 and R1 will be the class for post-2017 WRC cars.

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How long ago was it FIA went for an overprized kit from Oreca, that formed the basis for the new R4 class, not long.
Now we see cars coming on the market, and 2020 is really the first year that teams can plan a season with R4, nationally, regionally, and that now also is allowed in The World Championship rounds.

Suddenly the "old man club" in FIA turn around and put together a new ladder, where it is hard to see where R4 fits in.

My proposal would be
R1 - WRCar
R2 - R5, no factory teams left, so no need for a "Pro" class
R3 - R4 kit
R4 - R3 = new R2 awd
R5 - R2
R6 - R1

All current cars will have to be re-branded with the new R Class, so we do not have two names, one for the class, and one for the car. Not logical!

That in my opinion, makes more sense, and we will have a real logical rally ladder, for all. National, regional and world series!

PS; Agree on that new R3 will not be a gentleman driver class, it will become a class for up and coming talent, that need a cheaper way into awd!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sulland

How long ago was it FIA went for an overprized kit from Oreca, that formed the basis for the new R4 class, not long.
Now we see cars coming on the market, and 2020 is really the first year that teams can plan a season with R4, nationally, regionally, and that now also is allowed in The World Championship rounds.

Suddenly the "old man club" in FIA turn around and put together a new ladder, where it is hard to see where R4 fits in.

My proposal would be
R1 - WRCar
R2 - R5, no factory teams left, so no need for a "Pro" class
R3 - R4 kit
R4 - R3 = new R2 awd
R5 - R2
R6 - R1

All current cars will have to be re-branded with the new R Class, so we do not have two names, one for the class, and one for the car. Not logical!

That in my opinion, makes more sense, and we will have a real logical rally ladder, for all. National, regional and world series!

PS; Agree on that new R3 will not be a gentleman driver class, it will become a class for up and coming talent, that need a cheaper way into awd!

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You are always wanting new things before we even have reserved old ones :)

5 classes is enough, try to forget all others.

R2 4wd is not coming 2020.

R2 4wd? Yes what is needed is more 4wd:confused:

@R4Kit
Six different #R4Kit models already ride in rally! The seventh is coming for soon... We cannot wait and you? #SuzukiSwift
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHEDED3W...name=4096x4096

Beside the cost differences between a R5 or a Maxi Rally and the R4, there is a difference in the concept of each car. The R5 is a car available just one step below the WRC for those whom could pay it. The Maxi Rally is a response to the argentinean needs for an affordable 4WD car in middle of the country realities. But the R4 isn't just a standarized Maxi Rally or a cheaper R5, it is focused on the driver's abilities or skills development (not in his wallet).

As I had read from Javier Castro (from RC Competition), the french engineers that had come to help with the development of the PSA turbo engine of the Maxi Rally, sent the MR idea to Oreca, and then Oreca sent it to the FIA. The FIA called to a licitation (won by Oreca) to develop the R4 concept. Castro said that the Oreca kit isn't just a kit to replace the Maxi Rally, it's a closed package to avoid the development, and it have every measurement and torque documented, the way to build each car and all the homologation information wrote with nothing free to be change (apart from the brand of the dampers you want to use).

The R4 have more electronics than a MR, even it have suspension sensors that I think send the information to the ECU to be recoveded later as data to read. The teams just have to make the car work, and then it's all up to the driver. That's the theorical reading.

I have put my throughts about the Maxi rally on their thread, later you could think about a complot of the FIA to control the market of the kit cars, but that's another story.

What is price of the R4 kitcars new now?

Will ERC make this sole cartype for erc2 for 2021?

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Originally Posted by Alpine-110

What is price of the R4 kitcars new now?

Will ERC make this sole cartype for erc2 for 2021?

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Those cars are now called Rally2+KIT

So far 0 starts in ERC, I don´t make rules but I´m pretty sure that N and R-GT are also allowed in ERC2 for 2021

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Originally Posted by Alpine-110

What is price of the R4 kitcars new now?

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Probably around €170K; that means 30 to 40 more than a decent second hand R5 and helps to explain why so few drivers are buying R4’s.

Guy Botterill won the first two rounds of SA championship this week-end with Etios R4 :
https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...67&oe=5F85A314

Chris Coertse was here for the first outing of the Hyundai i20 R4 from Rallytechnic. He crashed on first race, then ended 3rd (between Botterill and him was the Yaris S2000 of Joubert)
https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d6&oe=5F8920FD

Renault Clio Rally2-Kit (R4) of Teo Martin Motorsport and MSI Race Tech

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EultPOkW...jpg&name=large

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rally Power

Probably around €170K; that means 30 to 40 more than a decent second hand R5 and helps to explain why so few drivers are buying R4’s.

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A little comment regarding the purpose of the R4 kit, Rally2 kit or whatever it is called.
It is very expensive for a manufacturer to make an R5. This means that many manufacturers, for various reasons, do not see themselves benefiting from such an investment.
On the other hand, there are importers of cars from brands that do not have an R5 who would like to participate in national championships, also for various reasons.
It is probably this need that the FIA ​​is trying to cover through this class for the conversion of suitable cars.
The regulations for this class must necessarily mean that they are somewhat less competitive than R5. Most people should understand this themselves without further explanation.
But the difference to R5 should (and is) so small that if one driver is x% better than another, it means that he can assert himself or make himself noticed. Maybe actually win the national championship he participates in.
I am very sure that this is not about creating a class where the cars are mainly meant to be cheaper than the R5.