for development purposes can't, but for PR could.
Printable View
for development purposes can't, but for PR could.
My point is mknight thinks he can tell its a "diff map development test" from a youtube video. More nonsense.
I wrote it "looked more like" and that "probably for dif." adding that they claimed they wouldn't be focusing so much on specific setup for events.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
You claim to know that it's pre-event setup test (stating it as a fact). There is a big difference between perception/opinion and facts, mixing the two is certainly popular recently. Therefore I make clear distinction between the two.
-------------
Can't agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by electroliquid
- For development (specially in early stage/on basic level) you want to have as many things as possible constant.
- For pre-event setup you want conditions most representative for the event, so for Germany you can have half stage as hairpins with bumps and half with long fast corners on smooth tarmac. Setup for one is not ideal for the other, so the event setup will be a compromise that works ok on both.
Obviously if the basics are ok and you understand how the car works development has to move from "perfect" conditions to something more resembling stages.
yes, i do know.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Citroën Racing @CitroenRacing
Hi for Germany! @krismeeke is back on tarmac with Sean Nolan! @paulnagle1 had a family function, he will be back for @ADACRallye! #PET #WRC
interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlAI3DmNOlY
New co-driver for Meeke is an interesting situation. I thought Nagle was a bit late at note calling, but maybe that was Meekes preference. Let's see how he does with Nolan...
Wrong end of the stick, Sean Nolan is deputising for Paul Nagle in the test, nothing else so you'll not find out "how he goes with Nolan".Quote:
Originally Posted by racerx1979
^^^. That's what I get for posting while drunk on my way to Estonia from Helsinki :)
i don't remember exactly when but they tested again this year with the old car.PET for corse?Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
Yep, before their PET for Corsica. And it seemingly workedQuote:
Originally Posted by nafpaktos
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
http://mmuk.realviewdigital.com/?iid=154760#folio=40
This states that Citroen used complete Ohlins dampers in Finland for the first time. Instead of their own?
This season there's been a lot of "one offs" and "never going to happens" which have nonetheless worked their way into the line-up at Citroen. If the official line is "just for the test" we may as well expect something else for 2018.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel157
It can be a number of things. Tanak was seen testing his new co-driver before it was announced but also Ogier was tested with Camilli's co-driver several times. The reason can range from preparing to change to having a backup to simple unavailability due to personal reasons.
if you research nolan, he has done next to no co-driving, so he is not a legitimate replacement, and from killarney, so likely nagel just recommended him in his absence. that took all of 1 min google research, but probably event that is too much effort for most rumour mongers.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
Neither had Anders Jæger though. No idea if Nolan have been working with Meeke/Nagle previously though.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
How do people even get started co-driving?Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrvold
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Ohlins personnel were seen on site at Citroen's PETs for Finland.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
How the hell is what I said rumor mongering? Also, lose the attitude, this is not kindergarten.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
sounds like your still in kindergarten little boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
Ohlins were tested on the car in a French/Spanish test earlier this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartusvuori
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4axn5CSG0QQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
In this video, only the front dampers have gold reservoirs, the rear reservoirs appear very similar to the DS3 WRC's. But this doesn't mean they aren't Öhlins of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVzk...ature=youtu.be
Defiantly feels are if there are getting the marketing dept behind this.
Back slapping exercise in how good the car in on tarmac.
They will never put him in a car for remaining rallies for 2017, cause the gravel will not suit that car.
They would only 'risk' bringing Loeb back for Monte 2018.
Also making a big deal of test, but also cancelling proper development proper makes no sense.
I'd really like Meeke is have a good result in Germany, to prove what we already know.
It's such a big deal just for a test. Maybe there is more to this. Loeb in 2018?? Or just marketing hype to help with Citroens lackluster results
This does seem like an easy PR win for them, getting the worlds greatest rally driver out in your car is sure to get them some media exposure. And if as a plus he can help set the car up for Germany, and increase their chances of winning, that's not a bad thing?
Although I think the pressure is really on the existing drivers, as the car proved in Corsica it is fast enough on tarmac, now they need to deliver without excuses, while their team environment seems pretty messy at the moment, not a great combination for confidence!
The nine-time world champion drove the French manufacturer’s C3 on asphalt and told wrc.com afterwards: “The feeling was really good. It was impressive how fast it is in the fast corners compared to an old World Rally Car.”
Loeb was partnered by regular co-driver Daniel Elena for the test in the Moselle region of France, near Strasbourg. After heavy rain in the morning, conditions improved in the afternoon to allow Loeb to experience the car on dry roads also.
“The feeling on the dry Tarmac at the end was really fast. I do not have a lot of cars to compare, but compared to the old WRCs, everything is a little bit better,” he said.
“It was difficult to get the feeling in the wet conditions in the morning. It was raining a lot and the tyres were really hard for those conditions. The car is more nervous than an old WRC, so that made it quite complicated, but at the end of the day the feeling in the dry was very good.”
Loeb provided plenty of feedback to Citroën Racing team principal Yves Matton and his engineers and urged the team to work on the C3’s driveability.
Loeb's test was initially hampered by rain
“The first feeling was that it was a bit of a racing car on a rally stage. When it’s full dry, it’s fast and efficient, but in tricky conditions it would be nice to improve a bit the driveability and make it easier to drive,” explained the 43-year-old.
Loeb denied the test could be the start of a WRC comeback with Citroën, for whom he dominated the championship between 2004 and 2012. He scored 78 wins and his last appearance was at the 2015 Rallye Monte-Carlo.
“The plan was just to come here to test the car. For me it was a good opportunity to discover the new WRC cars and for Citroën it was an opportunity to have my comments about the car, with my experience of general rally.
“At the moment we do not have any plan for the future,” added Loeb, who currently drives with PSA stablemate Peugeot in world rallycross and cross-country rallies.
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/augus...5--12-12-.html
something we don't know from French speaking mates?
http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/mont...1502233049.png
http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/mont...1502233143.png
My friend reminded about a photo from #Test3, early June 2016 in Finland, with guys in Öhlins jackets. So they've been involved in some way all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel157
Thank you for identifying your position so clearly.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
You do not wish for Citroen team to have a good result, you wish for Meeke to have a good result.
So let's follow on with this. Say Meeke manages top 4 times consistently and finishes 3rd while the other two are 7-10.
That would prove that Meeke can be fast while sometimes finishing a rally, yes we know that.
Does that say very much about how good the car is on tarmac? Not really. The main issue as also voiced by Loeb now seems to be narrow "working window" of the car. So sometimes it works for one driver (Meeke in Mexico, Lefevbre in Poland, Breen in Finland) but it doesn't work well for more drivers consistently.
Are you forgetting Corsica?
We know Meeke is quick on all surfaces.
Tarmac is not the problem for Citroen DS3 but still Loeb finds it difficult.
Why do you now believe Loeb about car issues, but not Meeke earlier in year?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Strange title, because in the first answer he gives he's just talking about how much more nervous and twitchy "the modern cars" (read: the C3) are, and how they are brutal and hard to understand their behavior, especially in the wet. The most important thing was to not crash. The conditions got better throughout the day and that improved the behavior a lot. In dry tarmac the car is very fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/augus...6--12-12-.html
Matton would like Loeb to do gravel test as well
i think that would provide invaluable insight to the team as well. And i'd suggest allowing him to test on various gravel surfaces when the team does PETs/testing to maximise the input from all the drivers and LoebQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
So now they have feedback from Breen, Meeke, Mikkelsen, Lefebvre and Loeb, and they all sound very similar. On dry tarmac it's a WTCC car, outside of that window it's a tricky sod. It's a shame it took this long to realise that.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Great piece, thanks for sharing it dimvii. The L’Equipe journo does a fantastic job describing the atmosphere around this very special day for Loeb and Citroen, as this wasn’t just a ordinary test session; it was the return of the 9 times champ to a WRC car and to his long time team. Besides Loeb’s comments on the C3 (like sonnybobiche already mentioned), we got to know that Loeb, his entourage and the whole Citroen team were delighted and there was a tangible feeling that this could be the start of something big. For now, both Matton and Loeb just talked about a possible gravel test coming next.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Some quotes:
Loeb “My first motivation was to discover the potential of these new cars. The engine goes strong, it takes more revs than the old ones, there’s more aero force and I must admit I wasn’t expecting for such a corner speed difference, on the dry, from the previous generation cars, like the DS3”; “I’ve the feeling I’m still quick behind the well”. Elena “the pace notes come out as before, it’s like we had never stopped”.
In 2016 Corsica Meeke beat Ogier in Polo on one stage by 17 seconds saying he didn't feel they were going very fast... and then ripped a wheel off on the next. This year with C3 he got to drive 6 stages. Breen was about same speed on Corsica as all other rallies. Yes we know Meeke can be quick on all surfaces and sometimes can even finish, but Corsica this year didn't particularly stand out compared with results with DS3. Btw. Breen also had about same speed in Finland with C3 as he did with DS3. In the interview between Poland and Finland Lefevbre said that in Poland the car was perfect for him whole weekend and was doing exactly what he wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
If a single driver (Meeke or anyone else) does well in C3 in a single rally while the rest of the team struggles, it does not show the car has changed in any way or that it's consistently good at that surface.
Up until now nobody openly complained about C3 on tarmac, Loeb is the first one.
To the last point: I do not believe any car issues "force" a driver to crash 4 times in 3 rallies from first place. Anyway there is an own thread for Meeke:
http://www.motorsportforums.com/show...t-Performances
uuuurrrgggghhhh... boke!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Still looks :cool:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGzKJ_6XUAE2gHl.jpg
I think what Loeb said about the car basically backs up what has been said on here, in low traction conditions the rear is loose and makes the car hard to drive. When the traction is high its very good.
I have to admit, I'd like to see him have a go at it again...